Bypass alarm nodes/sensors

[wangan racer]

Hello,

So, im try'n to find out info on how to bypass an alarm sensor... you know the ones... little white box near the ceiling in every conner that picks up movement or temp change and sets off the alarm. They are sensitive (but the sensitivity can be changed, but... i know these have been set high)
Does anyone here work in the alarm industry that has info about how to get around this problem...

i require this for informative purposes only. :P

Thanks for any help.

[crazy white guy]

depending on the alarm you can often strip the positive wire and attach the control wire to that before cutting the control wire. This will make it so that it will always give the a-ok signal. Another way is to go outside of the building and disconnect power to the security. This is very dangerous and should not be done unless you have the right tools and safety equipment. Cutting it remotely would be good if you don't care about damaging the building (shaped charge)

Also, is this alarm on a residential building or a commercial building? Its kinda important.

[tyrant]

Glass.
Ever noticed how the IR sensors never detect movement outside the window. I am fairly sure the glass reflects the IR or something like that. I would suggest buying a motion detector yourself and practicing; from eBay they are cheap. I might be completely wrong but i'm just putting it out there.
-Food for thought.

[Corporal Punishment]

first of all...no...
no to the second post no to the third

IR, depending on the field strength and construction of the windows will pass through (IE double paned argon filled windows are opaque to IR, single paned thin glass are translucent)...

you are thinking sonic sensors...anything over a given mass will set the alarm off or anything moving at a certain speed will set it off (doppler sensor)

the control for the house has a landline for I/O and power...cutting it off will trigger a cut wire alarm at the monitoring station

how about you people READ up on this type of stuff...

ever heard of wiki? It'll give you a good baseline of information you can research further if you Just Fucking Google It

Edit lol: forgot this Burglar alarm - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

ohhh that was HARD to find

also...ever heard of mylar space blankets?

if the alarm IS an IR based device you will be invisible...test this please I have not done this sort of thing in a LONG time...btw...they are very crinkly loud

[General Grim]

No such thing as a practical stealth cover/suit solution. Just move, very slowly.

[Corporal Punishment]

Alarm Sensor Security Circuit Cookbook, 1994, By Thomas Petruzzellis

I recommend you take a quick class in electronics and digital logic... knowledge of the PIC's will also help

you'll need to be able to ...you don't necessarily have to be able to KNOW what it DOES but you need to know enough to bypass it.

[wangan racer]

Originally Posted by crazy white guy

depending on the alarm you can often strip the positive wire and attach the control wire to that before cutting the control wire. This will make it so that it will always give the a-ok signal. Another way is to go outside of the building and disconnect power to the security. This is very dangerous and should not be done unless you have the right tools and safety equipment. Cutting it remotely would be good if you don't care about damaging the building (shaped charge)

Also, is this alarm on a residential building or a commercial building? Its kinda important.

ok cutting the wire wont "cut" it... any tampering will set off the alarm...
cutting the power will just put into battery mode and it last 3 days (to long)
and just no...shaped charge...that will be noticed by the law im sure.
its a commercial building

[wangan racer]

Originally Posted by Corporal Punishment

first of all...no...
no to the second post no to the third

IR, depending on the field strength and construction of the windows will pass through (IE double paned argon filled windows are opaque to IR, single paned thin glass are translucent)...

you are thinking sonic sensors...anything over a given mass will set the alarm off or anything moving at a certain speed will set it off (doppler sensor)

the control for the house has a landline for I/O and power...cutting it off will trigger a cut wire alarm at the monitoring station

how about you people READ up on this type of stuff...

ever heard of wiki? It'll give you a good baseline of information you can research further if you Just Fucking Google It

Edit lol: forgot this Burglar alarm - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

ohhh that was HARD to find

also...ever heard of mylar space blankets?

if the alarm IS an IR based device you will be invisible...test this please I have not done this sort of thing in a LONG time...btw...they are very crinkly loud

ok..first off i dont need to know about the system... like your wiki link says...thats just pointless info...i need to know how to get around it. And yes i have tried to Google it
do you think that i would post here if at first i have not explored all the ways available to me at the time. I thought that someone might have done this before or had worked in the alarm industry and would like to share. It would seem then that your presumptions on peoples post you find them of low IQ or in some way lesser than you and not ever hear of wiki or google. So, my suggestion for you Cpl, is to relax and think before you post.

So i asked someone who works there and they said they are Ultrasonic Detectors. Thats all they know and wont tell me anymore even if they did.

And thanks tyrant for your food for my thought

[Corporal Punishment]

ohhhh...you want to try to get around a complex system you know nothing about?

contradiction there? If you don't want to learn about the system you will not understand the information provided to bypass it.

and have I ever insinuated low IQ? no. I only insinuate ignorance, which btw is quite different from lack of ability to learn...and stop double posting...those two links have all you need to get started learning FOR YOURSELF how to bypass this system

Edit: I can't belive you actually asked someone there! if they have cameras they are going to have your face on record now

When the surfaces are stationary, the frequency of the waves detected by the receiver will be equal to the transmitted frequency. However, a change in frequency will occur as a result of the Doppler principle, when a person or object is moving towards or away from the detector. Such an event initiates an alarm signal. This technology is considered obsolete by many alarm professionals, and is not actively installed.

lawl yeah its all uselessinformation there!

[crazy white guy]

hmm. I have tried and tested my contact and cut method on the home alarm that was taken out of my house when the new one was installed and it worked perfectly. The other method I described when you just explode the shit out of the power box only works if you know your going to be in and out in less than a minute. It will look like the box just randomly exploded until someone goes up to it and looks closely. If you do it right it wouldn't look suspicious.

[squat251]

well, first off, for this you dont need any fancy links from wiki, or google, you need a tv and cable or satellite access, ever hear of a show called mythbusters? try holding a sheet over your head and away from you...its ultra sonic meaning the doppler effect wont apply, and depending on what type of building this is, im guessing its a clinic or a vet office, some one wants drugs, (its the same with all you kids...) it wont have a doppler system, if you really looked at those links you googled you would see that they are very expensive, a normal ultrasonic on the other hand, is much cheaper (doppler would be used in a bank, or some thing of that sorts) but as stated your an imbecile for asking the people who work there.

[Skelton]

Just do it as quickly as possible. If you can break in grab what you need and get out in three minutes you should be able to flee before the cops show.

Motion sensors have a very limited veiw range, a little over a foot at 15 ft.

[Random]

Originally Posted by squat251

well, first off, for this you dont need any fancy links from wiki, or google, you need a tv and cable or satellite access, ever hear of a show called mythbusters?

You are absolutely right. Because if it's on TV, it must be true!

Originally Posted by squat251

...its ultra sonic meaning the doppler effect wont apply

Uh...you get half a point for that statement...because you didn't attempt to use any numbers for words.

Typically, most security motion sensors are of the passive style - that is, they just sit there until they detect a change. A typical example of this is the infrared sensor. It will constantly absorb what little light radiation there is, but will not send out anything, nor do anything unless it detects a potential intruder.

A different, and probably more expensive, type of motion sensor is an active type, such as one that uses ultrasonic waves to detect objects that shouldn't be there, via echo timings. This technique faces many issues, such as responding to any sound-reflecting object within two metres (according to many sources).

As for ultrasonic sensors having ANYTHING to do with the Doppler effect...do you have any idea what either of those concepts are? Come back when you can independently prove that ANY particular sound frequencies, when used for security sensors, have anything to do with the Doppler effect.

[Majestic]

if everyone researched every answer through google then this forum wouldn't exist would it?

why slate someone for asking a question, it generates a debate, conversation and somewhere where people can spill their knowledge and compare things.

if we all googled every question we had, then we wouldn't be able to use this forum, as we would all know everything! Plus alot of search results rely on places like this, for information.

If someone wants an answer to a question that only has one correct answer, i.e 2+2 then yes... use google and stop being lazy, but when it comes to something like this that can have multiple correct answers, then lets hear them!

[squat251]

Originally Posted by Random

You are absolutely right. Because if it's on TV, it must be true!


Uh...you get half a point for that statement...because you didn't attempt to use any numbers for words.

Typically, most security motion sensors are of the passive style - that is, they just sit there until they detect a change. A typical example of this is the infrared sensor. It will constantly absorb what little light radiation there is, but will not send out anything, nor do anything unless it detects a potential intruder.

A different, and probably more expensive, type of motion sensor is an active type, such as one that uses ultrasonic waves to detect objects that shouldn't be there, via echo timings. This technique faces many issues, such as responding to any sound-reflecting object within two metres (according to many sources).

As for ultrasonic sensors having ANYTHING to do with the Doppler effect...do you have any idea what either of those concepts are? Come back when you can independently prove that ANY particular sound frequencies, when used for security sensors, have anything to do with the Doppler effect.

FIRST read this, The Doppler effect (or Doppler shift), named after Christian Doppler, is the change in frequency and wavelength of a wave for an observer moving relative to the source of the waves. It is commonly heard when a vehicle sounding a siren approaches, passes and recedes from an observer. The received frequency is higher than the emitted frequency when the siren approaches, is equal to the emitted frequency as it passes the observer and is lower than the emitted frequency as it recedes from the observer.

now think about and ultrasonic detector, being baffled with a sheet...think about it....think.....keep it up....hey youve got it, the doppler effect will not have any significance in this, most sonic detectors are "dumb" meaning they register change as a change in the shape of the waves returning, ie if the waves change from hitting something thats oddly shaped like a human. so now reconsider the insults laid upon me please. also, the person with the comment on google, you are absolutely right i too was drawn to this site after a google search

[Random]

Originally Posted by squat251

the doppler effect will not have any significance in this

The style of ultrasonic motion detector that detects objects that shouldn't be there, as I described in my previous post, has nothing to do with the Doppler effect. Another style of ultrasonic motion detector concept does work with the Doppler effect, in fact it revolves around it - but that concept can only detect moving objects, it can't see something that is standing still but shouldn't be there regardless.

I suppose, further, that it is not impossible to combine the two concepts into a single detector.

You suggest baffling ultrasonic waves with a sheet (I assume a bedsheet, linen or whatever other cloth you had in mind) - I can't see that idea as being workable. It would dampen or perhaps even misdirect the ultrasonic waves, but either of these scenarios would still trigger a detector of reasonable quality.

To respond to your original post - the Doppler effect does apply for all but one ultrasonic motion detection concept described in this thread.

Originally Posted by squat251

so now reconsider the insults laid upon me please

I have insulted you nowhere. I simply challenged what you had to say. If you take offense to that, then perhaps these forums aren't the place for you.

[squat251]

ok, the doppler effect as you seem to not have read why i posted the topic in the first place (as a responce to someone else) will NOT apply in a common detector, unless the people who bought them wanted to be entirely sure that it would not work. the doppler effect if you had read the quote i posted from wikipedia is the change in waves as they pass you, not the recieving of such waves. as i stated the sonic detectors are normally dumb, so the only change they will register is a diference in the shape of the wave after reflecting off of an oddly shaped thing that was not there from the last ping. using a bed sheet DOES work, i have seen it, if you need proof you can watch the Mythbusters trying to break into a room protected with one of these, and no you cannot trust everything on T.V. but since i would consider the Discovery Channel as a reputable source for information, seeing as thats what the damn chanel in on the T.V. for.

[Random]

Originally Posted by squat251

ok, the doppler effect as you seem to not have read why i posted the topic in the first place (as a responce to someone else) will NOT apply in a common detector

I'm not entirely sure what is accepted as a "common detector", or how such common detectors specifically work. I do, however, understand various facets of physics, including the Doppler effect.

Consider me yelling at a giant wall - one that can move. At the start of the example, the wall is stationary, one kilometre away from me. With the speed of sound being approximately 340.29 metres per second, it would take a little under 5.88 seconds for my yell to leave me, bounce off the wall and return to my ears.

The wall then starts to move towards me, at speed, and I continue to yell.

• At 1000 metres, the frequency is one full echo every 5.88 seconds;
• At 800 metres, the frequency is one full echo every 4.70 seconds;
• At 600 metres, the frequency is one full echo every ~3.53 seconds;
• Et cetera

To translate that into the actual frequency of echoes in a set period of time:

• At 1000 metres, one echo every 5.88 seconds;
• At 800 metres, 1.25 echoes every 5.88 seconds;
• At 600 metres, 1 plus two-thirds echoes every 5.88 seconds;
• Et cetera

Now, consider me standing there yelling, to be a motion sensor based upon ultrasonic technology. If there is an object closer than where I expect it to be, I'll know because the echo frequency is higher. Conversely, if it's too far away, the frequency will be lower. I know what the previous shout-and-echo result was, so if there's a change for this shout-and-echo, I know that something's moving and I should trigger the alarm.

So yes, the Doppler effect does apply. If you wish to present a specific brand and make of ultrasonic sensor which does not use the Doppler effect, by all means do so, but I here am discussing the general concept of ultrasonic motion detection.

From your post, I am concerned that may perhaps be confused with what exactly the Doppler effect is. Since you've mentioned a siren, we'll consider the example of an ambulance. This ambulance emits a loud beep (for simplicity) instead of a siren.

As the beeping ambulance moves closer to you, each beep will arrive to your ears faster, because the ambulance moving closer means that each beep has less distance to travel. As a result, the beeps will become more frequent as per your perception - the human mind will not typically notice it, but when precisely measured you will find this to be the case.

Because, as the beeping ambulance approaches, the beeps are coming at you faster and faster, there ceases to be a steady queue of sound waves. Instead, because they're coming at you faster and faster, they can compress the sound waves ahead of them, which results in a higher frequency still. Conversely, as the ambulance drives away, each beep takes longer and longer to reach you, so a lesser frequency which you hear as a deeper sound.

Originally Posted by squat251

using a bed sheet DOES work, i have seen it

It may, it may not, I don't know. As I said previously, I can't see it as being workable, but that is not to say that it can't work. I would be interested to experiment with this if I knew someone with an ultrasonic sensor - most motion detectors where I am are passive infrared sensors, not ultrasonic ones.