Acetone Peroxide

[chingyg]

Originally Posted by JeSuisFin

My neighbors cats nieces friends neighbors Labradors newphies friend who lives a block aways owner attempted to make AP using a very small amount because her first time synth:
62ml Hydrogen Peroxide
32ml Acetone
57ml HCL (30%Conc)

It was estimated it should yield 1.6 grams. Does it still work in small ratios? She does not see why it should'nt.

You are using more HCl than acetone, don't you get it HCl is just a catalyst, and you did not tell us how concentrated is your H2O2.

[JeSuisFin]

Originally Posted by chingyg

You are using more HCl than acetone, don't you get it HCl is just a catalyst, and you did not tell us how concentrated is your H2O2.

Got it now.
5%

Also I was in the paint section looking for acetone and I found muriatic acid. One the back of the bottle it said alluded to pools and painting. Just out of curiosity why would you use it in painting? (Never mind I used google and its used for etching and taking the paint off things.)

[that guy]

Originally Posted by JeSuisFin

My neighbors cats nieces friends neighbors Labradors newphies friend who lives a block aways owner attempted to make AP using a very small amount because her first time synth:
62ml Hydrogen Peroxide
32ml Acetone
57ml HCL (30%Conc)

It was estimated it should yield 1.6 grams. Does it still work in small ratios? She does not see why it should'nt.

If you used a stoichiometric amount of H2O2, you'll be getting a lot more than 1.6 grams. Chingyg is right too. No need for that much HCl.

I believe 5% H2O2 will leave some unreacted acetone.

[JeSuisFin]

Thanks for the help!

[chingyg]

Originally Posted by that guy

If you used a stoichiometric amount of H2O2, you'll be getting a lot more than 1.6 grams. Chingyg is right too. No need for that much HCl.

I believe 5% H2O2 will leave some unreacted acetone.

and remember unreacted acetone could dissolve your end products.

[zvekiii]

i need composition for about 10g. of AP:

20% HCI
15% H2O2
90%+ aceton

every help is appreciated

[willi-wurm]

however much i hate you, zvek, your right. we need to put all our knowledge together into ONE final synthesis.

but PLEASE. zvek. can you stop posting 5 times for the same question.

i actually found that the 4.5 H2O2 3 C3H6O 1 HCl version wasnt bad.

[zvekiii]

Originally Posted by willi-wurm

however much i hate you, zvek, your right. we need to put all our knowledge together into ONE final synthesis.

but PLEASE. zvek. can you stop posting 5 times for the same question.

i actually found that the 4.5 H2O2 3 C3H6O 1 HCl version wasnt bad.

why do you hate me???

yes and we need to all work together,iam familiar with explosives all kind because i grow up in war in my country and i love to blow stuff and i dont know whats the big deal about that

i dont understand this:4.5 H2O2 3 C3H6O 1 HCl????

i

[willi-wurm]

i think headcase is on holiday D:

Mod Edit; music festival...

or hes just given up on us hopless losers

but what do you guys think of the 4.5 of 30% H2O2, 3 of 99% C3H6O, and 1 32.5% HCl?

i tried this, and even with excess catalyst, it gives good yields if cooled. i neutralized it with baking soda. the first batch i did using all those ratios, and it gave a good yield. i scaled the next one up to... i think it was 12 acetone 3HCl and 13.5 H2O2. it floated, whereas the other one sank. it got me slightly worried, and when it was dry, it ignited from a flame... say 3 cm away. spooky D: mind you, i didnt cool this one. this batch made me nearly lose my thumb, as the fuse failed, and i had no time to run, and my nail came off, and my thumb swell up and had some blood under the skin D: well, nearly lost my thumb was over done. lucky i was wearing sunglasses xD

be careful with AP.

[krazypunk50]

what would happen if i used boric acid rather than sulfuric or muriatic acid as a catalyst? Has anyone tried it?

[Azmirth]

i haven't but, i seriously doubt it would work... at least it is not organic...

[willi-wurm]

some lewis acids work. just dont use any oxoacids (chloric,perchloric,nitric, you know)

has anyone ever tried aluminium or tin chloride? apparently it gives tetrameric structures, with trimeric as the "crystals you dont really want" (which is still a hella better than dimeric, thats for sure.)

[Azmirth]

i followed a sciencemadess discussion about tetrameric form, and i cant quiet recall, but tin (IV) chloride makes tiny explosion when mixed, but it works. ( not to efficient) Not only is it not efficient it produces dimer as the contaminent because of the required elevated temperatures.

[willi-wurm]

is there a test for dimeric contamination?

i think if there were a seperation method that wasnt too hard, id just seperate dimeric and trimeric. i notice it sometimes that when i make a batch, some tend to float more than others in distilled water. could this mean something?

[ninefingers]

Originally Posted by willi-wurm

some lewis acids work. just dont use any oxoacids (chloric,perchloric,nitric, you know)

Yes, organic acids work. Citric acid comes to mind. Check the Anarchology.com thread on A/P if you really want to see the stoiciometry, how to use varying percentages of H2O2; making trimer, etc.

[krazypunk50]

Also, i live in USA and i want to get sulfuric acid. i cant find drain cleaners that contain it. any suggestions? I'm gonna try to make a lil' batch. Also, does sulfuric acid dissolve plastics?

[Azmirth]

In theory sulfuric acid should not eat away at plastics, but i had a bad incident when i bought the drain opener kind (before i started ordering from online), it eat away through a plastic bottle that i used for transportion of small amounts. I guess it contained a solvent but im not to sure...

[willi-wurm]

it wont be the sulfuric eating the plastic, but the acetone, my recomendation is to use glass, the reaction doesnt get too hot.

also, dont use slufuric! its more expensive, more dangerous, and gives worse yields, and it harder to control the reaction temperature. hydrochloric is sold as muratic acid and is used around the house. i think the works is based on HCl, but im pretty sure its contaminated.

yes! i just read the thread on citric acid, seems to make sense that its easier to neutralize. how about other acids like acetic? i know that you can get up to 25 percent without being specific, its used to clean.

[Azmirth]

I doubt acetic acid would work because acetic acid is used to make acetates, which then can form acetone... im not to sure how they would react with H2O2 and acetone. And if you made acetone peroxide, it might react with it also. And lastly they acids have to be strong, or so i heard.

[JoeB]

Ace-peroxide can be used as primary explosive for ANFO?

[willi-wurm]

im told its not enough. you need a booster. i suggest APNC. look that up.

[iwanttolearn!!!!!]

hi guys, im new to this lovely forum, and perhaps, this is not the right thread to post.
i'm a noob and i'd like some help/suggestions. i've been making research for some days, reading all information about explosive that i've been able to find out, and then i found this amazing forum! i've some questions to make, can some expert and wise guy answer or better, suggest something usefull?

but frist im going to apologize for my bad english!


i was thinking about ANNM, 70% AN , 20% NM e 10% Al, and i was thinking about tatp as primary for annm... will this work? something like 2gr ap for 1000gr annm?

1) AP: some good advice to make the nice cristals of tatp? the reacion MUST be cooled? an icebath with only water ice and salt is good? what if the reaction goes up to 10C? i get the unstable dimeric form? how much time takes the reaction to be complete? i've read something about 6-8hr in the fridge to get the best yeld from the reaction...
the ap need to be compressed for make a good detonation, anyone got a safe method to compress ap?
how safe is tatp? i wasn't able to find hammer tests or something similar,

2) AN: ive readed some procedures to purify fertilyzers and get something close to pure an, they all work like: dissolve fert in to water, boil water then filter 1 time in a raw filter (something like a dish cloth), the second time in a coffe/lab filter, boil untill all water is gone, put the melted an to cool down then grind the crystals... this really can work? if not, how to get pure or usefull AN? ice bags?
another big problem that im guessing is, how to deal with the hygroscopic issue of AN? is it safe to heat up an powder untill i get a dry powder? and if all this questions are enough for your patience, how much grind? like flour or sugar?

3) pure NM from airplane/car models work fine?

thats all, ive made all the questions that came up in my mind.. hoping that someone will answer all this wall of questions that i've made, i will really like to thanks in advance all the people that read all (and maybe answer 1or2) the questions, and all the members of this forum that share their experience and knowledge!
again, sorry for my bad english!

keep up the good work, this forum is really really intresting!


edit: i forgot the concentration of the chem to make ap: 30% H2O2, 98% C3H6O, and 37% HCl, for the proportions i was thinking of 5p h2o2, 3p c3h6o and 1.5p hcl, anyone got better prop?

[X-ray Cat]

2 grams of AP is a pretty good primary.. I don't have any experience with ANNM but you might need a booster charge with that.

For the reaction, yes, salt/ice bath is sufficient. You can pre-chill the chemicals you're going to use in a freezer before starting your synth. You can also limit the temperature build up by the amount of acid you're adding. Go drop by drop and stir constant.. You'll see temperature gradually climbing up.. stop adding acid in time to let it cool back to a lower temperature before continuing acid addition.


AN CAN be found in fertilizers but ít should deffinetly say something about it being in there (something like ammonsaltpeter etc, so don't pick a random fertilizer out there). Icepacks I never use, but a lot of people get their AN from those so yea, should be good too. Correct me if I'm wrong but AN from icepacks is pure and doesn't need to be purified.

AN from fertilizer needs to be purified which is pretty simple. Dissolve the very hygroscopic Ammoniumnitrate together with everything else thats in that bag of fertilizer and filter out everything that doesn't dissolve (which can't be ammonium nitrate as that will dissolve like a motherfucker). Then you can simply throw away everything in the filter, get the filtrate (fluid that you filtered) and boil it down till it's all dry. Just heat it on an electric stove on like 120 degrees celsius and see the water boil off. You'll end with white crystals.
If there are other salts in the fertilizer that are also pretty good soluable in water you might need to recrystalise but you go and read up on that somewhere on the internet . However: if you're going to use your AN for something like ANNM you probably don't even need to purify the fertilizer. I got brown ammonium nitrate fertilizer with like sand and magnesium shit in it but when I blend it down, dry it in the oven at 80 degrees and add diesel to it, it works like a pretty damn good ANFO.

Nitromethane from that plane and RC cars stuff works.

PS, ammonium nitrate on itself (meaning without sensitizer like diesel, kerosine or nitromethane) is pretty safe to handle and can be easily heated to higher than 120 degrees without any risk of anything. Still, always be carefull whatever you do in this strange strange hobby of ours. Mistakes will take lifes. Don't put dangerous stuff inside your house and don't ever eat your own stuff, read up on toxicity of every material that you use and make including intermediary products. Peace

[iwanttolearn!!!!!]

x-ray, THANK YOU!! u've been very kind to answer all my questions...

ive read multiple articles regarding annm, many ppl say that is more sensible than anfo and dont require a booster charge (for small quantity i think), but, since my information are just the result of few hours of research, they could be wrong..

so what can be used as a booster charge? and how much? APAN? 10:90? 50gr for 1-1.5kg ANNM?

i cant find nothing that really have a meaning on the quantity of det+booster to set off an**...


i'm starting to really love this forum... so interesting!

Mistakes will take lifes. Don't put dangerous stuff inside your house and don't ever eat your own stuff, read up on toxicity of every material that you use and make including intermediary products. Peace

i will surely take all the safety mesures if one day i will ever sinth an explosive, but what kind of idiot eat up something made of very unhealty chemicals? ok im noob but at least im not an idiot


again thank you for the answers!

[Ponchiazz]

Originally Posted by X-ray Cat

2 grams of AP is a pretty good primary.. I don't have any experience with ANNM but you might need a booster charge with that.

For the reaction, yes, salt/ice bath is sufficient. You can pre-chill the chemicals you're going to use in a freezer before starting your synth. You can also limit the temperature build up by the amount of acid you're adding. Go drop by drop and stir constant.. You'll see temperature gradually climbing up.. stop adding acid in time to let it cool back to a lower temperature before continuing acid addition.


AN CAN be found in fertilizers but ít should deffinetly say something about it being in there (something like ammonsaltpeter etc, so don't pick a random fertilizer out there). Icepacks I never use, but a lot of people get their AN from those so yea, should be good too. Correct me if I'm wrong but AN from icepacks is pure and doesn't need to be purified.

AN from fertilizer needs to be purified which is pretty simple. Dissolve the very hygroscopic Ammoniumnitrate together with everything else thats in that bag of fertilizer and filter out everything that doesn't dissolve (which can't be ammonium nitrate as that will dissolve like a motherfucker). Then you can simply throw away everything in the filter, get the filtrate (fluid that you filtered) and boil it down till it's all dry. Just heat it on an electric stove on like 120 degrees celsius and see the water boil off. You'll end with white crystals.
If there are other salts in the fertilizer that are also pretty good soluable in water you might need to recrystalise but you go and read up on that somewhere on the internet . However: if you're going to use your AN for something like ANNM you probably don't even need to purify the fertilizer. I got brown ammonium nitrate fertilizer with like sand and magnesium shit in it but when I blend it down, dry it in the oven at 80 degrees and add diesel to it, it works like a pretty damn good ANFO.

Nitromethane from that plane and RC cars stuff works.

PS, ammonium nitrate on itself (meaning without sensitizer like diesel, kerosine or nitromethane) is pretty safe to handle and can be easily heated to higher than 120 degrees without any risk of anything. Still, always be carefull whatever you do in this strange strange hobby of ours. Mistakes will take lifes. Don't put dangerous stuff inside your house and don't ever eat your own stuff, read up on toxicity of every material that you use and make including intermediary products. Peace

Hello, i'm new here and i'm interested in these...things.
I read all the thread from the 1st page, and learned a lot about AP (i believe).
Most of all, that is frigging dangerous to handle, it's as instable as easy to produce, and so on and so forth.
I read that AP+AN is much safer.
How do you mix the two?
Since it seems that wet AP is less prone to detonate, i imagined that the procedure to make APAN would be:
_wet the AP (water?alcohol?)
_put into a borosilicate glassware you like to work with (beaker, i think)
_add AN
_stir with a glass rod
_dry

Is that right?


PS is the 50/50 APAN mixture sensitive enough to be detonated with a simple black match fuse? Where i live, fuses are hard to find (shrugs)


Thanx

Ponchiazzz

[JoeB]

Originally Posted by Ponchiazz

PS is the 50/50 APAN mixture sensitive enough to be detonated with a simple black match fuse? Where i live, fuses are hard to find (shrugs)


Thanx

Ponchiazzz

I wasn't aware a spark could detonate something..


Why is the hydro-peroxide such a low percent? Why not 90 something for example?

[Ponchiazz]

Originally Posted by JoeB

I wasn't aware a spark could detonate something..


Why is the hydro-peroxide such a low percent? Why not 90 something for example?

I read that the 50/50 was the safest, and could be detonated easily.
If the fuse is not a good option, how do i do?

[JoeB]

Well I just don't understand how a spark which doesn't have any type of real primary explosive can detonate a secondary. But then again I've never used AP as my mix. But I would honestly suggest with your 50/50 AP/AN , just take some of your AP and make your own blast cap with a basic fuse. That will probably work. The fuse seems like it would just start the AP and not actually "detonate".

[Ponchiazz]

Originally Posted by JoeB

Well I just don't understand how a spark which doesn't have any type of real primary explosive can detonate a secondary. But then again I've never used AP as my mix. But I would honestly suggest with your 50/50 AP/AN , just take some of your AP and make your own blast cap with a basic fuse. That will probably work. The fuse seems like it would just start the AP and not actually "detonate".

So you suggest to make a blasting cap of AP (primary) to detonate APAN (secondary) ? Mmm.
How much AP is suited to do blasting cap job?

[ninefingers]

I think that whole Tin Chloride stuff is just a myth Wiki put on to discourage people. They also list the Trimer as "very sensitive"; A/P as "water Soluble"; and how you Have to have high-strength peroxide; etc. This is all untrue, so I wouldn't trust them.