Some Basic Chemistry. (updated march 2nd)

[pyromainiac420]

Basic Chemistry Lesson.

One thing I always wanted to learn when I was first starting out in chemistry was balancing
chemical equations and such. I always wondered how K + N + o + 3 worked out to be KNo3 And not NKO3 Or
03NK. Or maybe how Kno3 + H2So4 = HNo3. I tried to figure it out and it eventually came to me.I know think
it would be a good idea to have a thread were people could come and get a basic understanding of
chemistry because anyone interested in explosives should know their chemistry and what is happening when
they are mixing say acetone and peroxide or nitrating glycerol. And anyone who doesn't want to learn
should best find another hobby. (PS:Any ideas on something to add would be great, I would rather you
message them to me or you could leave a post I guess..)

So lets start with some definitions:

Chemistry: The study of matter, it's properties, and its changes or transformations.

Decomposition reaction: A chemical reaction in which a compound is broken down into elements or smaller
compounds.

Double displacement reaction: A chemical reaction that occurs when elements in different compounds
displace each other or switch places to form two new compounds.

Element: A pure substance that cannot be broken down into a simpler substance.

Electron: A negativly charged ion that moves around the nucleus of an atom at different energy levels,
or orbits.

Precipitate: A solid formed from two sollutions.

pH scale: A numerical scale, ranging from 0 to 14, used to measure how acidic or basic a solution is.

Product: The substance produced in a chemical reaction.

Proton: A positivly charged particly that is found in the nucleus of an atom.

Pure substance: A substance that contains only one kind of atom.

Reactant/Reagent: The starting material in a chemical reaction.

Single Displacement reaction: A chemical reaction in which one element displaces, or replaces, another
element in a compound.

Synthesis Reaction: A chemical reaction in which two or more elements or compounds combine to form
a single compound.

Valence: The combining capacity of an element.

Word equation: A representation of a chemical reaction using words.

Ok We'll I'm kinda sick of that for now but I will add more later. Now I'm thinking periodic table.
The periodic table is a structured arrangement of elements; elements with similar chemical and physical
properties are in the same column. I suggest you look it up on google and get one to reffrence from.

Some main elements we use in this hobby..

K-Potassium: Element # 11 Mass: 39.

Hydrogen: Element # 1 Mass: 1.0

Sulfur: Element # 16 Mass: 32

Oxygen: Element # 8 Mass: 16

Nitrogen: Element # 7 Mass: 7

I will add more eventually.

The Periodic table, elements and their electrons.
The number in the top left corner of and elements "box" is its atomic number. The atomic number is also
equal to the number of protons and electrons in an element. The number at the very bottom is its atomic
mass. To find out the number of neutrons in the nucleus of the element you subtract the atomic number
from the atomic mass.

The Bohr Ruthefford diagram (google it) Shows the number of protons and neutrons inside the nucleus and
has circles surrounding the nucleus called orbitals. The first orbital can hold up to two electrons
the rest after that can hold 8. Orbitals are filled fromt he inside to the out.(when 1 is full electrons
move to 2 and so on) The most outer orbital with electrons in it is the orbital used in
reactions. These electrons are lost and gained in order to become stable. An element is stable when its
outer orbital is full. So take potassium for example (K) Potassium has 19 electrons like all other alkali
metals (Li,Na,K,Rb,Cs,Fr) it only has one electron in its outer orbital. So to become stable it has to
lose one. Then the runner up orbital will become the outer orbital and it is full so therefor stable.(no
longer wants to react.) So because potassium want to lose 1 electron to become stable it has a +1 charge.
Now what if an element has 7 electrons? Is that a + 7 charge? No, thats a -1 charge. It needs 1 electron
to be stable. Lets take chlorine for example (Cl). So chlorine wants to gain 1 electront and fil its outer
orbital and become stable...sounds like a perfect match for potassium to me. So we have K1+ and Cl 1-
The charges are the same number but opposites (+'ve and-'ve) So they cancell eachother out and become KCl
(Potassium Chloride). Now what if you have something like oxygen(o) and hydrogen(H)? Oxygen has 6
electrons in its outer orbital and hydrogen has 1. So how do you combine these two? We'll if you had two
hydrogens then bolth their 1+ charges would match Oxygens 2- charge. Now because they're are two
Hydrogens you can't write HO you have to write H20. Now an easier way to work this out is called criss-
crossing.
1+ 2-
H O

These are our elements now to combine them we take the 1+ and 2- and switch them:
2- 1+
H O

Now move them down and remove the +'ve and -'ve

H O
2

Note: You dont show anything smaller than two or if bolth charges and the same number with the opposite
charge Ex: 2- and 2+ then they cancel each other out.

And thats criss crossing in a nutshell.

Now when I learned this what I tried to do is add Nitrogen (N) Potassium (K) and Oxygen (o) together using
this method and thought, why the fuck isnt it working? We'll it turns out I had yet to learn about
polyatomic Ions. (Poly meaning many.) Polyatomic Ions have more than one type of atom in them and have
one charge for the whole group of atoms. Take the nitrate atom for example (No3) No3 has and overall
charge of - (-1) so how to we get KNo3 from Potassium and the nitrate ion? we'll its as simple as KCl
that we did earlier.
+1 -1
K + No3


=


KNo3


Bolth charges are the same number with the opposite charges so again they cancell eachother out.

Now what if you get something like calcium phosphate? That won't work out to CaP04. Well lets look at our
elements, ions and charges.

Calcium= Ca (2+)

Phosphate= Po4 (3-)

so...
2+ 3-
Ca + Po4


Now lets criss cross..
=

Ca Po4
3 2


This isn't correct just yet. Because now it would look too much like Po42. YOu can't have that. So you
put the polyatomic ion in brackets and put the 2 outside the braket.

Ca3(Po4)2


Perfect. Now that we know how to combine Polyatomic ions lets list some that we use in this hobby.

Hydrogen bicarbonate HCO3 (1-)

Iodide I (1-)

Nitrate NO3 (1-)

Phosphate PO4 (3-)

Sulfate SO4 (2-)

Ammonium NH4 (1-)

I'll add some more as we go...


Ok so lets learn now a bit more about the periodic table.
The periodic table is split up into groups

Here is some main groups.

Group (I): Alkali Metals (far left, excluding hydrogen)
Li,Na,K,Rb,Cs,Fr. everyone of these elements has a 1+ charge.
The number of the group shows the amount of electrons in its outer orbita.
Group (I)= 1 electron in its outer orbital, therefor 1+ charge.

Group (II): Alkaline earth metals.(just to the right of group (I)
Be,Mg,Ca,Sr,Ba,Ra. All of these elements have a 2+ charge. The same thing
applys to this group as to group (I). Group (II) = 2 valence electrons (outer orbital electrons)


Just to the right of the Transistion metals is

Group (III) This group includes B,Al,Ga,In,Ti.
This group has a 3+ charge. Same principles apply to this group as to (I) and (II).
3 valence electrons.

Group (IV) (I need to learn more about this group myself)

Group (V): This group includes: N,P,As,Sb,Bi. The group has an overall 3- charge.
And just as it applys to (I)(II) and (III) it is group V so five valence electrons.

I'm planning to add more to this....

[C3H5N3O9]

I just thought I would let you know as you seem to be interested in chemistry, most of what you posted particularly the info on basic ionic bonding and poly atomic ionic bonding is mainly accurate, the info on orbitals and electronic structure is on the right track ,(sort of) , but far from correct.
Electrons are arranged in energy levels called shells there are 7 shells called, K,L,M,N,O,P,Q respectivley, K being the lowest energy level and Q the highest. Each shell is then divided into sub shells of similar energy ,(known as orbitals), each orbital can hold a maximum of 2 electrons.
There are 4 different types of orbitals, (though there is now discussion of a fifth), S, P, D, F, the first shell only has 1S orbital, the second 1S and 3P's the third shell has 1S, 3P's and 5D's the fourth shell has 1S 3P's, 5D's and 7F'sand as I mentioned, in the course I am doing at the moment we are discussing the possiblity of a G orbital, but I will not discuss that here, the tricky thing is the orbitals don't fill completely in order, because electrons will always fill lower energy orbitals before higher energy orbitals.
The first energy level, the K shell can only hold 2 electrons, therefore it only has 1 orbital, called 1S. Hydrogen having only 1 electron has an electron configuration of 1S1. Helium the first noble gas has a full first shell so its structure is 1S2.
Now we move into the second shell the L shell can hold up to 8 electrons therefore it has 1 S orbital, called 2S and 3p orbitals.
For an example of this shell look at Fluorine, as you pointed out it is 1 electron short of having a full valence shell, so its structure is 1S2, 2S2, 2P5 so 2 of its 3 P orbitals are full but it is lacking an electron. Now Neon the second noble gas has a full valence shell as do all noble gasses, so its structure is 1S2, 2S2, 2P6.
This fills the second shell, so we now move to the third, this is where it begins to get tricky, the 4S orbital has lower energy than the 3D orbital so let's take things up to the next Noble gas Argon, it has 3 shells, with a total of 18 electrons, but the third shell can hold up to 18 electrons by it'self, Argon's electronic structure is 1S2, 2S2, 2P6, 3S2, 3P6. So even though its third shell only has 8 electrons it is considerd full, now as I mentioned the 4S orbital has lower energy than the 3D orbital, so for Potassium, element 19 and the first element to use the fourth shell its electron structure is, 1S2, 2S2, 2P6, 3S2, 3P6, 4S1. Its valence electron is in the fourth shell in the 4S orbital, because as I mentioned electrons will always fill lower energy levels first.
Calcium continues to fill the 4S orbital before the 3D its structure 1S2, 2S2, 2P6, 3S2, 3P6, 4S2, then after Ca the 3D orbitals begin to fill.
The next element being Scandium has the electronic structure, 1S2, 2S2, 2P6, 3S2, 3P6, 3D1, 4S2. As the periodic table continues we keep going up 1 electron at a time but the orbitals continue to swap around.
Copper is the first element to have a completely full 3rd shell, its structure, 1S2, 2S2, 2P6, 3S2, 3P6, 3D10, 4S1, as you can see it has gone back to having only 1 electron in the 4S orbital.
Electron structure specificly the valence electrons can predict/explain which elements will react with which and also how they will behave,( to a degree).
However in its entirity it is a rather complex aspect of chemistry.
I also thought I would mention that many of the transition elements can have multiple valencies, for example Iron Fe 2+-3+ ; Manganese Mn 2+-4+; Tin Sn 4+- 2+. Also the ammonium ion is NH+ (1+), there's also a few mistakes with capitalization, like it's KNO3 not KN03. Also H2O isn't an ionic compound it is a molecule which forms by the 2 Hydrogens sharing their valence electrons with Oxygens 6 to make 8, this is a covalent bond.
Apart from that it's all good
Any way I hope that hasn't confused people further but if you are going to learn, you really need to have the fundamentals right.

[jrly]

I don't think that the electron shells are really all that useful when doing explosive chemistry, and especially considering that most of the people on here are kids and won't spend the time to try to understand it. And I have been taught this stuff and what you just wrote C3H5N3O9 was very confusing to me. And when are you going to need to know the electron shells when making explosives unless you try to make something really complicated and I wouldn't advise trying to do that after learning from a place like this.

[C3H5N3O9]

Electron configuration is at the heart of chemistry in general, it is the electron configuration that determines what elements will interact with what and how they will behave when doing so. If you are just following someone elses instructions when performing a synth then it isn't important, but if you want to understand what is actually happening during a reaction, these are the fundamentals you need to understand. I mainly posted this as the info in the first post "basic chemistry " was so far of the mark, and if you couldn't understand my post then you obviously, either weren't taught very well, or you don't understand the concept yourself.

[jrly]

No I understand the concept just fine and I had a great teacher, but when you are trying to describe something like this in less than a page it gets really hard to describe and understand. And yes I understand that it isn't really necessary for the synth, but most people aren't going to take the time to figure thsi out especially with something as confusing as this.

[Jago]

Originally Posted by jrly

I don't think that the electron shells are really all that useful when doing explosive chemistry.

This thread isn't just for explosive chemistry.

[pyromainiac420]

Thanks for all the input. I realize there are some errors but everyone makes mistakes. You did write "like it's KNO3 not KN03." And you also said "Also H2O isn't an ionic compound it is a molecule" The first half is right but my science teacher would correct me and say that H20 is a molecular compound because it is two non-metals joined by covalent bonds. Not that I'm trying to flame you or anything, but as I said what I was taught about electron orbitals. Your deffinatly at a much higher level of chemistry than me lol. Anyway it would be great if you could kinda try to explain what you said about orbitals more clearly, I can get the idea but it would be better if it were clearer. Again thanks!

[pyromainiac420]

Ok, I'm trying to understand the orbitals and shells and here is what I have gotten. An electron has 7 shells that contain orbitals witch contain electrons. There are 7 shells K, L M, N ,O P , Q there are also four different orbitals S, P , D , F The K shell holds 1S orbital The L shell holds 1S and 3P orbitals The M shell holds 1S 3P and 5D orbitals the N shell holds 1S 3P 5D and 7F orbitals. Ok, that I get now what about shells O,P and Q? What orbitals to they hold?

[C3H5N3O9]

Originally Posted by pyromainiac420

You did write "like it's KNO3 not KN03." And you also said "Also H2O isn't an ionic compound it is a molecule"

Point well taken.
Though when I said that H2O is a molecule with a covalent bond I was simply pointing out the most basic unit of a molecular compound, the molecular compound H2O is made up of many molecules of H2O.
Anyway you sound like you're on the right track as far as electron structure goes, but it would take me to long to explain it, so here's a link to an excellent site that explains it all comprehensively.
http://www.chemtutor.com/struct.htm

[jrly]

I don't think that I understand the K L M N O P Q R system, I'm not sure if it is just something I haven't learned because of the low level of chem that I am in or if it is just a different system.

Instead of being an asshole, like I have been, I have decided to be helpful. These should help with electron configuration.





I was also wondering why no one had mention the other way of electrion configuration notation or whatever it is called with the 1s and above it is an arrow pointng whatever way. Because that is also basic chem if we are going into electron configuration.

[C3H5N3O9]

I think you need to read my post more carefully, what you have posted is exactly what I described. K,L,M,N,O,P,Q are just the names of 1,2,3,4,5,6,7.
The K shell is 1. Denoted by 1S2
The L shell is 2. Denoted by 2S2, 2P6
The M shell is 3. Denoted by 3S2, 3P6, 3d10
And so on, all just as I have already said.
True this concept is hard to explain quickly, that's why I posted the link

[juan]

im a chem student at UTD, and im going to say one thing.

Chemistry is very important in understanding how to synth compounds properly for example.

You can take a recipe for acetone peroxide.

Anyone may say use this much or that much well perhaps you decide to boil your Hydrogen peroxide to 30% well obviously, you are going to need to change your concentrations or you risk having to much hydrogen peroxide left in solution that didn't displace into AP with the acetone. All this is easy to figure out with some simple adding and multiplying math and basic chem but to many people assume they are unable to understand it. So all I'm saying is I challenge you to understand these basic reactions because they aren't that hard. Try and do the math and if you get confused ASK ASK ASK me or got to chemistryforums.com and ask them they'd be glad to explain where you went wrong.

ANOTHER THING IF YOU EVERY DECIDE TO MAKE CHEMICALS AND YOU DO NOT HAVE A GOOD UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT YOU'RE MAKING. DON'T MAKE IT (EXAMPLE) AGAIN ILL USE ACETONE PEROXIDE. IN THE CREATIONS OF THIS SOLUTION AS IS EXPLAINED IN THIS WEBSITE HYDROCHLORIC ACID IS USED. THIS ACID IS HIGHLY REACTIVE. ACIDS DON'T "MELT" STUFF THEY REACT WITH THEM HENCE DON'T PUT THIS STUFF DOWN YOU'RE DRAIN BECAUSE IT WILL REACT AND CRYSTALLIZE. INSTEAD LISTEN TO PEOPLE ADD BAKING SODA TO NEUTRALIZE IT. ANOTHER THING MAKING STRONG HYDROGEN PEROXIDE IS EXTREMELY DANGEROUS BECAUSE IT IS A VERY STRONG OXIDIZER. WHAT'S AND OXIDIZER YOU MIGHT ASK SOMETHING THAT WILL ADD OXYGEN TO THINGS EX IRON + OXYGEN = IRON OXIDE. EASY TERMS 100% HYDROGEN PEROXIDE + IRON SING = COMPLETELY RUSTED WATER SYSTEM

I'm sure to many kids and people are so willing to jump on the train and say yeah I understand this AP thing it's so easy but what they don't tell you is what you leave in solution when they reaction is done. From now on I advise people to figure out how to dispose of these chemicals instead of making bombs and then dumping the rest outside, not that anyone does but some 15 year old who just wanted to blow something up may very well destroy 2 square feet of grass with his HCl acid. So in pursuit of chemical knowledge let's not just teach how to make bombs but why we should encourage safety before, during, and after the reactions are completed.

THINK BEFORE YOU REACT
THERE ARE PEOPLE OUT HERE WHO WILL HELP YOU TO UNDERSTAND BEFORE YOU BLOW THE WORLD UP.

[Dealer-K]

A little chemistry here... Many people who create homemade explosives have the accelerants losely deposited or shaking around in the casing like sand. packing the chemicals together greatly helps ignition and simotaneous combustion. they way to do this best is to use a solution that will get the chemicals wet, but will not react as a solute. Pure 200 proof alcohol is the best thing you can use to pack chemicals. many combustable chemicals dissolve in water or any solute containing water. but the pure alcohol allows for there to be no dissolving but tighter packaging.

[Dealer-K]

also just as a reccomendation. magnesium sulfer may be a great accelerant and be highly combustable, but i wouldnt reccommend using it as a reasult of damaged kitchen counters in the apartment. its is extremely unstable and will ignite with even with small amounts of friction, or casing impacts.

[Corporal Punishment]

Originally Posted by Dealer-K

also just as a reccomendation. magnesium sulfer may be a great accelerant and be highly combustable, but i wouldnt reccommend using it as a reasult of damaged kitchen counters in the apartment. its is extremely unstable and will ignite with even with small amounts of friction, or casing impacts.

if you can't do something as simple as typing th correct name of the chemical...please do not post in a thread about basic chemistry.
I can't tell if you are talking about magnesium sulfate or magnesium AND sulfur and WTF do YOUR mechanical difficulties have to do with US?

the same goes for posts about anything NOT related to basic chemistry.

IE explosives (NOT basic chemistry)
packing techniques (NOT chemistry at all, thats physics)
manufacturing techniques (same as above)
synths (NOT basic chemistry)

the list goes on!

this thread is about teaching everything from intro to chem 1.

[X-ray Cat]

"Electron: A negativly charged ion that moves around the nucleus of an atom at different energy levels,
or orbits.

Precipitate: A solid formed from two sollutions.

Proton: A positivly charged particly that is found in the nucleus of an atom.

Pure substance: A substance that contains only one kind of atom.

Synthesis Reaction: A chemical reaction in which two or more elements or compounds combine to form
a single compound."



I didn't went through the whole thing but there actually already were a couple of tiny mistakes in the first couple of blocks:

-An electron is NOT an ion but a charged particle. Plus it doesn't necessarily have to orbit an atom.

-A precipitate can be any solid substance that goes out of any solution at a certain time I believe, dunno for sure..

-Protons can also be found solely hovering through solutions creating acids. Hooks up with watermolecules to form oxonium, H3O

-A pure substance doesn't have to be made up out of only 1 type of atom i believe. According to wikipedia (not the best source however, but still..): "A pure chemical substance cannot be separated into other substances by a process that does not involve any chemical reaction and is rarely found in nature. Some typical chemical substances can be diamond, gold, salt (sodium chloride) and sugar (sucrose)."

Even if you have the pure substance of lets say a sole element, you still very often wont have only one type of atom due to isotopes.

[john lee]

Hello.
I hope this is in the right place,anyway it would be hard to get anymore basic than this!
I've been making copper sulphate,i know it's cheap to buy but wanted to make my own.
The first test was using hydrogen peroxide and sulfuric acid.
NOTE-Acids are dangerous and goggles and nitrile gloves must be worn when mixing acids,even weak acids.Fumes can also be dangerous.

DO NOT ADD WATER TO THE ACID,ALWAYS ACID TO THE WATER SLOWLY,OR IT WILL OVER HEAT AND COULD BECOME VERY DANGEROUS.IT WILL ALSO SPIT ACID ALL OVER YOU.
ALSO KEEP A STRONG WATER/SODIUM BICARDONATE MIX CLOSE BY,THIS CAN BE USED TO REMOVE ANY ACID SPILLS.
TRYING TO REMOVE STRONG SULFURIC ACID WITH WATER WILL MAKE THINGS WORSE AND JUST SPREAD THE ACID.

My first test was using a 50-50 mix of hydrogen peroxide 6% and sulfuric acid 35-40%.These were mixed in an old jam jar(ADD THE ACID TO THE PEROXIDE SLOWLY),the mix WILL become hot.Copper was added and after 1 day crystals formed,these were washed and the outcome was 19grams of dry/ish! copper sulphate crystals.I know it's not much,but it was a small test and the 19grams are my crystals!

Test two.Sulphuric acid 35-40% was added to a jam jar.Two heavy duty copper wires(the stuff that goes under ground) were taped to a wooden stick,this was to stop them touching(THEY MUST NOT TOUCH EACH OTHER).They were put in the acid (not the stick!) and connected to a 12v battery charger,when it was turned on(LOW SETTING) there were lots of bubbles(NASTY FUMES) and the + side wire started to turn to powder and stick to the - side,after a short amount of time the + side wire was gone.
I was left with a large amount of copper powder/sponge in the bottom of the jar and blue acid.
The crystals are now growing in the acid,these will be washed and recrystallized asap.
The copper powder was washed and dried in the oven on the lowest setting.30 grams of very fine copper powder thats like my atomised aluminium powder.

Question-Can other metal powders be made in this way?Titanium powder/sponge would be worth making.I've no Ti to do a test yet.
I'll soon be making copper benzoate with the copper sulfate.
John.