Every pyro should read this and think seriously about it.

[AnonymousUploads]

Everything I am about to say are things you have heard before. This time, I want you to read them slowly, and think about them carefully. Digest these concepts, for your own good.

Messing with explosives without the proper licensing is illegal, and getting caught can easily fuck your life.

Messing with explosives without the proper knowledge is dangerous, and fucking up can easily end your life.

You don't know what you don't know. What you don't know can end your life, and you don't know half as much as you think you do.

Intelligent people, chemists and professional explosives experts, have died or been seriously injured while working with compounds far safer than the explosives typically synthesized by amateurs. These were people with years of experience, but they were unaware of the dangers under a given condition. Chances are, you don't know all the potential dangers either- or you may underestimate a risk you had already considered.

I am primarily speaking to the masses of 14 year olds with plans to make acetone peroxide etc, but even experienced pyros should keep this stuff in mind. The particular nitrotetrazole derivative you're synthesizing may be insensitive, but due to impurities in your reaction water that you were unaware of, a side reaction occurs. Milligrams of an extremely sensitive salt are formed that is a contact explosive when dry. This tiny quantity is enough to detonate your entire batch. Fatal lessons are pretty useless for their students.

While I might get banned for a redundant and provocative post like this, I've said these things after having read a fair number of threads. The attitude of many of these posters is coming from someone who hasn't thought enough about their actions, and the dangers they face. If my words get through to even one person who reads this, and makes them contemplate even for a minute, I will have succeeded.

Chances are you've all heard these things before, but take a moment to imagine this: You awake in the hospital with a bloody bandaged stump for an arm. One of your eyes will never work again. Your girlfriend is crying, as is your mother. Your eardrums were permanently damaged. Your life is changed forever. You thought you knew what you were doing, but this time you fucked something up. You might not even know what it was that went wrong.

These are the risks you face. Sit at your computer and think about this for a few minutes.

Done? Ok, now you can go messing with whatever you want. Have fun. Just wanted to get this out there :P

[AnonymousUploads]

If anyone is wondering what would motivate me to post something like this, its partly a genuine interest in preserving the safety of my fellow pyros. I'm just like many pyros- young (under 20), and doing my hobby illegally. My message is one that may seem hypocritical, but its all stuff that I honestly do think about on a daily basis.

My other motivation is that every pyro out there who fucks up and hurts himself or others makes it harder for all the rest to continue their experiments. The public opinion of pyro as a hobby is already low, and paranoia about explosives is rampant. For every teenager who dies playing with ANFO, the community will find themselves facing more chemical restrictions and paranoia. I believe its gotten to the point where even buying glassware requires some form of government registration in Texas. While I think thats drug related, the point is that things can get absurd, and really they already have- but they can get much worse. I for one would like to avoid that.

These type of online forums could help people interested in the hobby to learn the basics and start safely, but there simply isn't enough emphasis on safety and education. If the community as a whole were to make proper research and safety measures among their top priorities, we could literally save people. When someone comes into the forum asking how people think their HMTD shaped charge will work, they need a mature and educated response on the risks they face and then perhaps ideas on improving their design or how to go about it in a more efficient manner. If we looked out for each other and tried to change the tone of the community, I think we'd see an improvement.

Go ahead with all the "LOL NEVER HAPPENING! STUPID IDEALIST LULZ" responses now :P

[X-ray Cat]

Good post, not something to start dicking about at all.

Not many people (if any at all) are going to be affected by a post like this though. It's mainly that immature drive of these young people here to do something that isn't completely legal and is at the same time exciting and "cool" that will greatly overshadow common sense and responsibility. We can't stop these kids in doing this. What would be the best guess for helping their survival?? Education?? Every starting fool with explosives is a hazard to himself and surrounding and only by luck of having good teachers or by luck of not having an accident will create the more experienced people.

Still a good post.

[ninefingers]

Great Posts!

I tried to buy some glass tubing in Tucson (for glassblowing--really!) and the supplier said:"Can't sell to you; too close to the border". (??) What bull--since when does State Law change from area to Area? I think he just didn't want to bother with my small sale on the pretense of "might use it for drugs". It gets real crazy.

Yeah, kids think they are invulnerable; it will never happen to them. Like the 16 YO in Napa who went 100 in a 35 zone on a motorcycle and then plastered himself all over a lady's Lincoln.

If you do use this stuff, respect it. Just because something doesn't work the first time, don't get sloppy. Put newspaper down on the work bench, then throw it away afterwards. Wash everything thoroughly--one speck of KMnO4 with the wrong thing can ruin your day. Label everything well. Don't synth while drunk or stoned.
Yesterday I was drying some Acetone Peroxide. Some leached through to a piece of foil--I thought it was just some salt. Bang! It blew a big hole in the foil. Never get off your guard and assume.

And, making recoverable rockets is legal in all states. If you live in an area where fireworks are legal; you can make some of those, too. I'm not sure of the storage requirements, etc--see skylighter.com for the legalities on their newsletter. Of course, this is Low Ex or Pyro--but ANFO can be legally compounded for mining, etc, with a permit. It is a mess to get one--BigFoot on Anarchology knows all about it.

[uchiacon]

Anonymous, you truly are an idiot for writing this post.

First, those most liable to injure themselves won't bother to read it.
Second, those that will already have proper precautions in place to help prevent any accidents.

That took you what, a half hour to construct? Well thats a half an hour less that you could've spent doing on something people actually care about.

[AnonymousUploads]

Ouch, woke up on the wrong side of bed, or are you always so aggressive? o.O

I guess I'm just a bad person for caring about people, and doing what I can to help prevent injuries.

Originally Posted by uchiacon

First, those most liable to injure themselves won't bother to read it.

Very true, but (hopefully) a few will. To quote myself... "If my words get through to even one person who reads this, and makes them contemplate even for a minute, I will have succeeded."

Originally Posted by uchiacon

Second, those that will already have proper precautions in place to help prevent any accidents.

You might have kinda missed my point a bit- this is something for any pyro to keep in mind. Even many professionals keep this type of thing close to their heart (and all of them should). A healthy respect for what you are working with is a must! More importantly, we must remind ourselves of this constantly, as it is easy to get too comfortable with what you're doing... people become used to just about anything over time, even in potentially life threatening situations. Complacency kills

In many ways, its the people who believe they have all the precautions in place that should keep this type of message closest to their heart. Things can go wrong even for the most knowledgeable.

Originally Posted by uchiacon

That took you what, a half hour to construct? Well thats a half an hour less that you could've spent doing on something people actually care about.

Something people actually care about? Like what o.O

You make it sound like my time is valuable and limited! I spend hours a week playing videos games, and I'd hope that investing my time in the safety of others is time better spent than playing Starcraft. Even if Island Invasion is a badass map.

If you want to talk about wasting time... I'd say reading this thread is far less of a waste of time than wading through the countless posts on these types of forums that could be answered by a few chemistry classes, a search through Google scholar, or even just common sense... if you want to complain about a thread being something no one cares about, there's hundreds of others you should go complain in first... and EVERYONE should care about a message like this, and remind themselves of it on a regular basis.

Man, I don't think I've ever been called an idiot for making an honest attempt to help people I don't even know. Goodwill is so last week, or what? Guess I better get with the times

[ninefingers]

Good Call, Anonymous! (If I may call you that)

If it saves One Life; it's worth it. What is a Life worth --1/2 hour? Two Hours? A Lifetime?

True, a lot won't be reading this or even care. As I said, most think it can't happen to them. They need to check out Anarchology's site on premature explosions--and the graphic pictures of people shredded to carne asada by them. One bomb defuser got sloppy--there is a graphic photo somewhere else of his hand being blown to pieces from his disrespect.

Besides, if someone wants to cut down posts; how about the Pages of arguments over who's right/who's wrong? Who's a douche-bag, who isn't? Some sides Still won't post their "proof". Now, There is a waste of time.Yours is one of the rare ones that go somewhere on this forum.

The one teenager you saved may never know you or even realise your gift to him.

[AgentApoc]

Good thread A.U. I agree completely. People (especially on this forum) need to seriously think about the repercussions of improper safety techniques and doing little research about the materials they are actually synthesizing and such.

One key thing that many need to learn is to research information and learn enough to understand it themselve's without relying on others completely, when you do that you are more or less trusting your life to what someone else says. However as previously stated such a warning will be nearly completely ignored here. I suppose you will feel better to save a life but that is irrelevant to me; the only reason this is a concern of mine (and should be to all serious hobbyist's) is if the number of kewl b0mb3rs getting themselve's killed and injured continues rising the restriction of precursors and eventually even information will rise as well.

Whether you are experienced or not it is always a good to get a reminder of just how dangerous this hobby is no matter how safe you think you are if only to gain more respect for the materials you work with.

[ipuntbabys]

great job Anonymous

I read threw that and thought it about it and i am going to be alot safer when messing around with explosives and pyrotechnics and when i grow up i am going to get a explosives license. thx Anonymous.

[willi-wurm]

as said above one of the most dangerous aspects of explosives and chemistry in general is habitualization. think back at the first time you made something energetic... i was scared, had a gas mask on, 3 latex gloves, i just didnt want to get burnt or killed. now, i do it with half the care, and this could cost me my life. the one thing you dont really think about:

oh, im just going to make this NG. i know that if it stays under Xdegrees ill be fine.

but, did you consider some, more sensitive impurities in the glycerin, which got nitrated, and sensitized it alot more? its the little things that count, and you should NEVER get sloppy when doing something as, quite frankly, dangerous as chemistry.

i have had my mishaps, (we all have) but i have always been lucky, and it only cost me a few burnt hairs and a bit of earache, along with some scars, but no more.

[uchiacon]

Originally Posted by AnonymousUploads

Ouch, woke up on the wrong side of bed, or are you always so aggressive? o.O

I guess I'm just a bad person for caring about people, and doing what I can to help prevent injuries.



Very true, but (hopefully) a few will. To quote myself... "If my words get through to even one person who reads this, and makes them contemplate even for a minute, I will have succeeded."



You might have kinda missed my point a bit- this is something for any pyro to keep in mind. Even many professionals keep this type of thing close to their heart (and all of them should). A healthy respect for what you are working with is a must! More importantly, we must remind ourselves of this constantly, as it is easy to get too comfortable with what you're doing... people become used to just about anything over time, even in potentially life threatening situations. Complacency kills

In many ways, its the people who believe they have all the precautions in place that should keep this type of message closest to their heart. Things can go wrong even for the most knowledgeable.



Something people actually care about? Like what o.O

You make it sound like my time is valuable and limited! I spend hours a week playing videos games, and I'd hope that investing my time in the safety of others is time better spent than playing Starcraft. Even if Island Invasion is a badass map.

If you want to talk about wasting time... I'd say reading this thread is far less of a waste of time than wading through the countless posts on these types of forums that could be answered by a few chemistry classes, a search through Google scholar, or even just common sense... if you want to complain about a thread being something no one cares about, there's hundreds of others you should go complain in first... and EVERYONE should care about a message like this, and remind themselves of it on a regular basis.

Man, I don't think I've ever been called an idiot for making an honest attempt to help people I don't even know. Goodwill is so last week, or what? Guess I better get with the times

Fed up with adults acting all righteous when they're completely blind to my expertise and safety precautions. You, people like you, and regulatory authorities have made my patience run thin on several issues. You know just as well as I do on what people actually care about.

Then this guy decides to say on my account page that I need counselling for my anger problems. Yeah, ok, I don't get angry about much. However, when I do get taken up on some issues I will tend to get touchy.
FOR example. You guy up to somebody who works on an oil rig. You tell them that what they are doing is dangerous and that they should stop and return to their families. You then say you are just trying to help.
No doubt you will be landed some blows, either physical or verbally, and be told to go somewhere.

I know for a fact that a pacifist like you wouldn't be taken on sciencemadness; you'd get first class to GTFO and perma banned outta there.

You're not helping anybody, you're just filling up this forum with more shit (lol) and getting people worked up. I guess I'll jump on the band wagon too.

[AnonymousUploads]

Originally Posted by uchiacon

You know just as well as I do on what people actually care about.

I do? o.O

What specifically are you referring to? (I'm honestly curious)

Originally Posted by uchiacon

You guy up to somebody who works on an oil rig. You tell them that what they are doing is dangerous and that they should stop and return to their families. You then say you are just trying to help.
No doubt you will be landed some blows, either physical or verbally, and be told to go somewhere.

I'm not sure an amateur energetic material enthusiast and an oil rig worker make a good comparison, due to the comparative hazards and importance of knowledge in each case, but sure :P

I wouldn't tell an oil rig worker to return home due to the danger- once again, I'm not sure you got the point. I'm not actually trying to dissuade anyone from their hobby, but only to keep them in the right mindset, and try to encourage people to take safety precautions.

If I were to meet an amateur pyro using unsafe methods, I wouldn't tell him to stop his activities, rather I'd want them to research safer alternative methods of accomplishing the same thing.

Hell, the stuff I do is probably worse than most people- and that's why I often try to remind myself to remain cautious of any possible problems. It's easy to get lax when you're surrounded by danger, day after day. Very few amateur pyros have worked with anything as dangerous as N2O4 binaries, or nitrotetrazole synthesis.

Originally Posted by uchiacon

I know for a fact that a pacifist like you wouldn't be taken on sciencemadness; you'd get first class to GTFO and perma banned outta there.

First off, I'm anything but a pacifist. I'm currently on track to be a military weapons developer, and I had previously been intending to join the Navy EOD program, which includes active combat duty.

Second, I think you misjudge the sciencemadness community. I'm on there, but didn't post it there since the community there tends to be more serious about their hobby, and the majority of them have a much more scientific approach to things (and the additional safety that goes along with a mature attitude).

If you look through the energetics section again, you'll notice that the attitude there is very similar, with entire threads focusing on safety and approach to the hobby. Engager (my fucking hero) often stresses the safety precautions and experience required for the 5-ATZ derivatives he works with.

That's not to say anyone should let the hazards they're faced with prevent them pushing the frontiers of amateur science- just do so... carefully ^_^

Originally Posted by uchiacon

You're not helping anybody, you're just filling up this forum with more shit (lol) and getting people worked up. I guess I'll jump on the band wagon too.

My goal is to get people worked up... there's so many stupid kids out there thinking they can whip up some acetone peroxide and impress their friends with a big bang. Meanwhile they're failing high school chemistry. In my opinion they need to hear this type of thing... apparently you disagree, and that's your right. You don't need to go calling people "complete idiots" based on their well thought out opinions :P


You gave a perfect example in your recent post:
bomb to stop asshole
I've seen so many real posts along those same lines its disturbing. Yours worked well as a scathing parody :P

It might interest you to know that you were originally banned for that post before I messaged a moderator to have you unbanned...

I think you've taken this entire thing far too personally. If you feel you're well educated on the potential risks of everything you do, and you take all the reasonable precautions with a healthy respect for the materials you work with, you're already at the point I was trying to get people to reach for.

You claim I'm trying to get people worked up- but so far you're the only one who's gotten worked up! hehe

But seriously, relax man. I'm not here to personally attack or offend you. I think you've misjudged me and my intentions

[uchiacon]

Huh. Ok, sorry, I do get your point now. Headcase didn't see the whole parody thing either.. But I usually post on this forum to either inform others of something rather, or to look through because for some reason scimadness is down. Very rarely will I ever trust a synthesis on this website, and if I do I will always consult another source.

I just think you attempts here a bit futile, thats all. If they are whipping up TATP, they won't bother with these threads and will have to learn the unpleasant way.

I am, however, interested in your whole weapons developing thing. I've been thinking for a long time that my experience with you know what from quite a young age would be useful in the quarrying or any other industries dealing with you know what. Do you think it would look good or bad from an employer's point of view?

I personally stay clear of anything that isnt hard to detonate, and Ive just burnt the last of my nitroglycerin. I'll be disposing of my acetone peroxide/NC paste tomorrow, and I've got some HMTD that I'll be disposing of once I can get the hang of the DDNP synthesis.

Speaking of which, whats your experience with azides and DDNP synthesises?

[ninefingers]

Originally Posted by uchiacon

FOR example. You guy up to somebody who works on an oil rig. You tell them that what they are doing is dangerous and that they should stop and return to their families. You then say you are just trying to help.
No doubt you will be landed some blows, either physical or verbally, and be told to go somewhere.

This is Lame...these people are Pro's; they've been doing it for years. No one would go up to a blaster or bomb defuser (if you can get that close-!) and tell them: "that's dangerous, don't do it". They'll laugh and agree then go on crimping caps.We are talking about Amateurs here.

I know for a fact that a pacifist like you wouldn't be taken on sciencemadness; you'd get first class to GTFO and perma banned outta there.

I don't think so. Only if you aren't up to the conversation. If they talk of synthesizing OctoNitroCubane or something and you post, like: " oh, neato; I can make flash powder" or lame stuff like that; not a new thread on safety.