Fuck Bush.

[Demo Spec]

Agree or Disagree?

[shetlan]

Originally Posted by Demo Spec

Agree or Disagree?

With what?

Bush did what he could with a bad situation, and that's how history will remember him.
Only a few months after he came into office, we had the largest terror attack in US history; the public demanded retribution - so he gave it to them. What was the guy suppose to do.

I'm so sick of hearing people talk about how bad Bush was - especially considering who replaced him.

[The Influence]

Guy must have done somthing impressive if everyone (Including the media) is still talking about him


Agree or disagree, it doesn't matter.. Obama is our president now

[uchiacon]

No... no bush WAS an idiot, him and his tight group of friends had a tidy monopoly on the reconstruction in Bhagdad(of course, distrubuting US taxpayer money to themselves lol). He was an idiot and cheney was a corrupt fuck. And cheney was his brains; he didnt have any. End of story.

Fuck cheney.

[bloodlusta]

Bush was just stupid. He was simply there to be a puppet. I don't think he was a bad person, just didn't have much between the ears.

[shetlan]

Originally Posted by uchiacon

No... no bush WAS an idiot, him and his tight group of friends had a tidy monopoly on the reconstruction in Bhagdad(of course, distrubuting US taxpayer money to themselves lol).

That's a common claim - one that's never been substanciated by any type of evidence.

Originally Posted by uchiacon

He was an idiot and cheney was a corrupt fuck.

Is "fuck" a noun now? That's one versatile word.

Originally Posted by uchiacon

And cheney was his brains; he didnt have any. End of story.

Cheney was the brains - so where Rumsfeld, Powell, and the rest of the cabinet. Bush knew he wasn't the smartest guy in the world, so he surrounded himself with brilliant people.

[bloodlusta]

Originally Posted by shetlan

Is "fuck" a noun now? That's one versatile word.

In New Zealand yes it is. "that guy is a dumb fuck" "what a stupid fuck" "That fuck is just playing silly buggers" ect

Originally Posted by shetlan

Cheney was the brains - so where Rumsfeld, Powell, and the rest of the cabinet. Bush knew he wasn't the smartest guy in the world, so he surrounded himself with brilliant people.

Brilliant is one word... so is evil.

Those people where only ever out to make money for themselves. its the Bush admins fault we have the issues we have now. If he hadn't lowered interest rates to 1% in 2003 we would not have had the whole sub-prime mortgage issue.

[Steve_TPF]

If any of you really want to discuss Bush then bring up a specific issue, backed by a reference. Otherwise this is just a bitching session.

[shetlan]

Originally Posted by Steve_TPF

If any of you really want to discuss Bush then bring up a specific issue, backed by a reference. Otherwise this is just a bitching session.

My sentiments exactly. The majority of people who hated Bush (or still do) just repeat slogans and catchphrases that they've heard spouted over the years - without a shred of evidence to back them up.

All of the assertions about Bush and Cheney making money on the war have been proven either complete falsehoods or have been based in a lack of understanding on the part of the accusers (the latter is mentioned below).

I talked to one woman about Cheney's connections to Halliburon. She claimed that Cheney's "Deffered Income" from Halliburton was money they paid him to start the war - specifically because he was still being paid by them after he left the company.
I pointed out that deffered income was part of his contract years before the war started, and I explained that deferred income is almost always paid after you've left the company.
She ignored the logic of the point and told me that she "knew what she believed".

In Cheney's words:
"Why would I go to the trouble of starting a war to make money? I'm old - there's no way I can spend what I already have!"

[Atma]

I think Bush did an alright job while in office; he handled the attack and war in a decent way. However, I don't like some of the things he did or put into play, such as the Patriot Act.

People like to blame the Bush Administration for the problems we face today, when the current administration is really to blame, for the most part.

[Steve_TPF]

Pardon me? The economic crisis, war on terror etc. started long before Obama took office. In what way is the current administration to blame?

[Atma]

Sorry, I wasn't thinking clearly when I posted that; you're right about the economic crisis and war on terror. The current administration tries to push the majority of the blame on the past administration, while it has been responsible for at least heightening the economic crisis. They say they're solving the nation's problems, when they're really causing more trouble.

In case this is brought up, I think he handled the attack and war well in the beginning, but also feel the war has been drawn on for too long and we have little reason to still be there.

[shetlan]

Originally Posted by Steve_TPF

Pardon me? The economic crisis, war on terror etc. started long before Obama took office. In what way is the current administration to blame?

The events leading to 9/11 started midway through the Clinton administration - not Bush's fault. If Clinton had taken Osama out when he had the chance (any of the dozen times he had the chance) 9/11 may have been prevented.

The economic crisis was caused by the collapse of the mortgage industry thanks to the incompetance of the leaders of Freedy Mac and Fannie May - who sold mortgages to people specifically because they knew they couldn't afford them. Many of these incompetant politicians are currently working in the Obama administration - ie. Christopher Dodd, Hillary Clinton, and Obama himself.

Additionally, many economists are coming out against Obama's actions in recent months. Several claim that the economic crisis would be over and on its way to recovery if Obama had just kept his nose out of it.

[bloodlusta]

That is if Bin Larden even did do it. Interestingly enough the only evidence linking Bin Larden to it is a video that was "found in a cave". Have any of you seen said video? They guy in it doesn't even look like him. Also no wreckage of any of the planes was ever found except for the twin towers, and yet at the sites they found the "terrorists" passport. So the explosion destroyed the plane but not the passport? Also the funniest thing ever is the fact that at least 3 of the terrorist suicide pilots are still alive. they even came forward and said look we are alive, but they have not been taken of the list. There are many other peaces of evidence which makes me think the US government knew about the attacks but did not want to prevent them because it would allow them to push legislation that they could not otherwise have done.

Im probably going to get flamed for this but it is interesting to note that every time before America has joined a war something has happened (i.e pearl harbor, the American ships being sunk off Vietnam) that it turned out the US government either faked or knew it would happen (and didn't prevent it) so they could get into the war.

[Steve_TPF]

References required for all of those claims.

[shetlan]

Originally Posted by bloodlusta

That is if Bin Larden even did do it. Interestingly enough the only evidence linking Bin Larden to it is a video that was "found in a cave". Have any of you seen said video? They guy in it doesn't even look like him.

And what conspiracy theory did you pull that out of?
The mastermind of 9/11 (Khalid Shaikh Mohammed) was proud to admit that he had discussed the plan extensively with Bin Laden. Between 2001 and 2004 Osama released multiple audio tapes discussing the attacks and in 2004 he made a video appearance taking credit for them.

For a guy who claims to question what he's told, you fall for some seriously off the wall stuff lusta'.

Originally Posted by bloodlusta

Also no wreckage of any of the planes was ever found except for the twin towers, and yet at the sites they found the "terrorists" passport.

I'll assume that you pulled this, and everything following from the "Loose Change" conspiracy theory video (or others like it). I'll point out that the creator of the video originally meant for it to be a work of fiction, but decided to turn it into an "artistic documentary".

Aside from that, plenty of wreckage was found at the pentagon site. Popular Mechanics did an excellent job of debunking the bogus theories the "Loose Change" video presented here:
Debunking the 9/11 Myths: Special Report - Popular Mechanics

As for the site in Virginia, I'd like you to take a look at this: YouTube - F4 Phantom Vs. Wall
Adjusted for the increased speed, you get the same basic results with an airliner.

Originally Posted by bloodlusta

So the explosion destroyed the plane but not the passport?

Plenty of papers from the WTC where floating around Ney York, but the buildings came down - go figure.

Originally Posted by bloodlusta

Also the funniest thing ever is the fact that at least 3 of the terrorist suicide pilots are still alive. they even came forward and said look we are alive, but they have not been taken of the list.

The BBC started that rumor two weeks after 9/11 - and has long since repudiated their own claims. According to them, they ran the preliminary info they where told, and some of the information was apparently wrong.

As for why they're still on the list: I have no idea. It appears to be a beurocratic oversite, that was blown out of proportion.

Originally Posted by bloodlusta

There are many other peaces of evidence which makes me think the US government knew about the attacks but did not want to prevent them because it would allow them to push legislation that they could not otherwise have done.

Let's hear some of them.

Originally Posted by bloodlusta

Im probably going to get flamed for this but it is interesting to note that every time before America has joined a war something has happened (i.e pearl harbor, the American ships being sunk off Vietnam) that it turned out the US government either faked or knew it would happen (and didn't prevent it) so they could get into the war.

You won't get flamed for it - it's just a total load of shit.

Pearl Harbor
We knew there was going to be an attack of some kind, but we didn't know it would be Pearl Harbor. On that note, Pearl Harbor was considered one of the least likely places for them to attack, being so well guarded and heavily armed.

Vietnam
We where pretty open about entering Vietnam for ideological reasons - I don't recall anything about ships being sunk as a motivation.

As for your assertion that the US "know or faked" - specifically the "or faked" - I would love to hear one shred of evidence you have to that effect. Maybe you can ask the lizard men that control the world from inside the earth's core