America Deserved 9/11

[Beyond]

Originally Posted by LizzyReikoZ

I'm sure that more than 3,000 people die every day of cancer or other diseases.

Cancer has no motives and no political agenda, instant fail.

[jrly]

Originally Posted by Beyond

You show me a comparable example.

That it is what I said that I was unsure how I connected them.

[DeathToSociety]

Originally Posted by Beyond

You show me a comparable example.

And don't give me a Hitler or Stalin example. I want an example of a major super power having it's citizens attacked in a nonwar setting and sustaining losses in the thousands in one day from a man made situation.

Well how about Darfur, It's a war setting now because other countries have started to help, but before it was just the Sudan government hiring militias to kill the Africans with no major resistance. And why does it matter if its not a super power?

[Beyond]

Originally Posted by DeathToSociety

Well how about Darfur, It's a war setting now because other countries have started to help, but before it was just the Sudan government hiring militias to kill the Africans with no major resistance.

That's the best you can come up with? That's taken place over many years and is completely premeditated through the government. It's practically a civil war.

And why does it matter if its not a super power?

Because we're a super power and one of the, if not the most, advanced societies in the world. I want to see where something similar has occurred in a nation at our prestige in their respective time period. You shouldn't have a problem finding one since you say this type of thing happens all the time.

[Beyond]

Originally Posted by jrly

That it is what I said that I was unsure how I connected them.

Hitler and Stalin are in no way comparable. Their killings took place in a war setting and mainly were targeted at enemies of the state.

When Hitler invaded Poland, he wasn't solely targeting civilians and he definitely wasn't wiping 3,000 of them out in one day. He also went about it in a semi-diplomatic fashion. He withdrew from his pact with Poland and the ultimate goal was to surround and defeat the Polish army in Warsaw, not just starting killing whoever they encountered.

Compare that to the Al Qaeda who only wanted to inflict fear and kill as many as they could as fast as they could. They had no concern for diplomacy or the rules of war.

[DeathToSociety]

Here is what I said before:

Maybe not in our part of the world, but in other places people die in massive quantities. The reason it was such a big deal to Americans was because people thought themselves untouchable.

I didn't imply that it happens all the time to super powers, you brought that up. In fact I implied the opposite, hence "people thought themselves untouchable".

I don't understand what it is you want to hear, there is no identical situation to 9/11, but as a matter of fact people are killed all the time, and it's irrelevant if it happens to a super power, or not.

[DeathToSociety]

Originally Posted by Beyond

When Hitler invaded Poland, he wasn't solely targeting civilians and he definitely wasn't wiping 3,000 of them out in one day.

Al Qaeda isn't solely targeting civilians either, they bomb embassies too, and if you try and argue that Al Qaeda is worse that Hitler then you're simply an idiot.

[Beyond]

Originally Posted by DeathToSociety

Al Qaeda isn't solely targeting civilians either, they bomb embassies too, and if you try and argue that Al Qaeda is worse that Hitler then you're simply an idiot.

Where did I say Al Qaeda is worse?

I'm asking for you to show a comparable one day event that comes even close to 9/11.

[FerretBone]

Originally Posted by DeathToSociety

Al Qaeda isn't solely targeting civilians either, they bomb embassies too, and if you try and argue that Al Qaeda is worse that Hitler then you're simply an idiot.

And bombing embassies they only kill 46 embassy employees and 175 innocent bystanders. They target embassies because there arent any American malls and hospitals within reach. They would much rather have a play ground or daycare to bomb.

With power or a real Army AQI could be a lot worse than Hitler.

[Beyond]

Originally Posted by FerretBone

And bombing embassies they only kill 46 embassy employees and 175 innocent bystanders. They target embassies because there arent any American malls and hospitals within reach. They would much rather have a play ground or daycare to bomb.

With power or a real Army AQI could be a lot worse than Hitler.

Absolutely and that's why I kept asking them to provide something remotely comparable.

[jrly]

Originally Posted by Beyond

Absolutely and that's why I kept asking them to provide something remotely comparable.

I know that most of you won't agree with this but the reason that 9/11 resulted in so many deaths was because there was more than just terrorists flying planes into towers, but I don't feel like getting into it because I know that I will be bitched at. Anyways, there have been many terrorist attacks on powerful nations like the subway bombings in London or the attacks in Madrid, but if you discount my opinion that there was something else was going on, the terrorists just got lucky that so many people died and their plan worked so well.

Originally Posted by FerretBone

With power or a real Army AQI could be a lot worse than Hitler.

If Al Queada had that much power there would be a lot more than the 100,000 soldiers attacking them in Afgahnistan.

Originally Posted by Beyond

Hitler and Stalin are in no way comparable. Their killings took place in a war setting and mainly were targeted at enemies of the state.

How are they not comparable? Hitler killed Jews and gypsies and whoever dissented, as did Stalin, though Stalin's murders were more for political gain than just against certain peoples, unless someone has other numbers.

[FerretBone]

Originally Posted by jrly

If Al Queada had that much power there would be a lot more than the 100,000 soldiers attacking them in Afgahnistan.

Maybe about 16,115,000 US mobilised soldiers like in WW2 against hitler?

Absolutely and that's why I kept asking them to provide something remotely comparable.

Yeah I know, and we both know there is no comparable event. Except the movie Independence Day.

[Steve_TPF]

Originally Posted by FerretBone

Go annoy us somewhere else.

This is probably the first time that I actually agree with FerretBone. Lizzie didn't post a question, just a statement, and a dumb one at that, with no supporting argument. (Except "America is full of fat bastards who are only good at having bad relations with other countries.") So, death to all fat bastards then?

Originally Posted by FerretBone

You can try justifying terrorism anyway you want. But it will still be terrorism. They commit premeditated murder, deliberatly target the weak, and innocent. Terrorists are still terrorists no matter their cause. Islamicist terrorist leadership have said they hate democracy, becasue it is not the way of Allah. The United States is the Number 1 enemy of democracy, the number 1 enemy of justice and peace in the world.

I agree with this too. Osama and friends would always hate the US regardless of what it did, simply because of what it is.

Originally Posted by FerretBone

I would like to throw this out as a reminder. 50 years of Cold War with Russia and the US, both behind the scenes funding and supplying the wrong countries, proxy wars, puppet dictators, and funding rebels, is what really fucked the world up. Just because we came out on top doesnt mean we didnt have help. Do not forget to blame Russia.

True enough.

Originally Posted by headcase

Did America, with its interventionist policy which upset and infuriated many other nations, bring the 9/11 attacks on itself?

Impossible to say. The attacks might have happened anyway.
Australia was listed as an Al-qaeda target following it's involvement in the separation of East Timor from Indonesia. Indonesia is a muslim country, so this was taken as an attack on the muslim world. Does this mean Australia should not have assisted? No. Does it mean Australia deserves any terrorist attack that befalls it? No.

Neither did the people who died in the 9/11 attacks deserve what happened.

Re. civilian deaths in Iraq/Afghanistan: anyone who recklessly or deliberately kills civilians should be held accountable. But it doesn't justify killing more civilians.

[Bahr]

This is probly going to be my only post on here, Im just saying my opinion. So haze me all you want, Im probly never going to see it.

I think some of ya'll are thinking about this in a school boy kind of way. Some one is talking shit about you or aggravating you, You go and hit them. But I think killing thousands of innocent people over did it just a bit. I dont think any country deserves to have unknowing people blindly killed, Whne most dont even know the reason that thay are being killed. I personally, wouldent like being hit by an airplane either. If it was me wanting revenge I would have went for the president not just anybody I could get.

[LizzyReikoZ]

Only killing the president would not have the same demoralizing effect that killing 3,000 civilians did.

There are no such things as war crimes, it's only the winning side complaining.

[jrly]

Originally Posted by FerretBone

I would like to throw this out as a reminder. 50 years of Cold War with Russia and the US, both behind the scenes funding and supplying the wrong countries, proxy wars, puppet dictators, and funding rebels, is what really fucked the world up. Just because we came out on top doesnt mean we didnt have help. Do not forget to blame Russia.

I'd like to throw this out there as a reminder. The US is what made bin Laden and al-Qaeda what they are today.

[Beyond]

Originally Posted by FerretBone

Yeah I know, and we both know there is no comparable event. Except the movie Independence Day.

Well, at least Independence Day had some kickass special effects.

[LizzyReikoZ]

America did not come out on top of the cold war. Look around, all that fell was the USSR. America is falling behind the rest of the world in weapons and technology, as well as having little foresight with nuclear weapons. You need to be building more instead of deactivating them and hoping the 50 year old ones are still good.

Rights in America are being eliminated all the time... "free speech" is no longer free. You're becoming a nation of politically correct pussies with no backbone.

[FerretBone]

Originally Posted by jrly

I'd like to throw this out there as a reminder. The US is what made bin Laden and al-Qaeda what they are today.

Plea-Frecking-eeeaze, Once again we suck up all the blame and can care less, but we were not the only ones Jack. The US, United Kingdom, Saudi Arabia, China, Egypt, and Pakistan, plus others in the gulf all aided the rebels from the Soveits.

Where do you think Afghanistan as a whole received the most funds and all their military training from? Russia.



Lizzy, most plutonium pits have a credible lifetime of at least 100 years. The oldest pits currently in the US arsenal are still less than 50 years old. Most other parts are replaced and maintanted as technogy allows. Besides The Reliable Replacement Warhead (RRW) a nucle