open carry

[shetlan]

Originally Posted by ninefingers

Don't you wish. And your crap on the good state of Hawaii is crap. Prove it.

Okay: American Thinker: Why the Barack Obama Birth Certificate Issue Is Legitimate

A rather lengthy article on how easy it is for anyone to get a birth certificate in Hawaii - including the president.

Originally Posted by ninefingers

"Try Look" is Hawaiian Pidgin. You never having lived there you are obviously not familiar. I use slang and colloquiallisms to stay user-friendly. Charles Winchester in MASH was always" right" but his highbrow ways didn't get him friends. I'd rather be a BJ Hunnicutt--a little more of a people-person.

We all watch TV land and the hallmark channel kid, trying to convince people of your age by referencing a show - that's pretty sad. For that matter, using one that's still on the air - that's just pathetic.

Originally Posted by ninefingers

Azcdl.org/AZApellateCourt_Danovs.Collins.pdf AZCDL.org/AZApelklkateCoutrt_Statevs.Adams.pdf AZCDL.org/AZApellateCourt_Statevs.Moerman.pdf These require Adobe, so go get it.

Perhpas you should "go get" links that are actual links.

Originally Posted by ninefingers

You Are partially correct about O/C in CA--I was told O/C was not legal in Napa county except cops, etc, turns out they lied. It is
Technically OK if Not Loaded (what good is this?). A lot of cops don't know all laws. One displayed the Tommy gun Napa City PD had obtained in the 'thirties:"It is Il-legal" he said; I countered:"In California." He didn't like that, but tough titty.

Nobody "lied", and I wasn't "partially correct".

You where wrong - I was right - time to grow up little guy.

Originally Posted by ninefingers

About CCW in CA-- . . .

See, it DOES happen.

This morning, I saw wings sprout off the back of a pig. It lifted off the ground and flew around the city.

See, it DOES happen.

Originally Posted by ninefingers

He teaches CCW, he is up up on all laws and reciprocity, etc.
AZlaw says gun not concealed in car if not under drivers/passengers "immediate access and control". One guy got busted for having a gun rolled up in a jacket in back seat--he appealled and won. Yes, see, it DOES happen. Also, the passenger busted for not having CCW when gun was not concealed and driver had CCW. This is in St.vs. Moerman, I believre, If you Read it, you will see.

And again with the "not posting proof".

Originally Posted by ninefingers

The roader grader incident--why didn't you look it up for yourself before? Lazy?

Didn't know when it happened, where it happened, or any other specifics of the incident - how was I going to look it up? You where the one who claimed to have links, blogs, and even eyewitnesses of the events in question - none of which have thus far coroberated your story.

Originally Posted by ninefingers

Burden of Proof lies in accuser, you know. Also, my Court of Appeals were genuine--look them up, too. Maybe it is opinion who was justified in the road grader shooting, but , NO, my "editorial" was not "BS"---anyone's opinion , even yours to me , is of value.I feel the cops Not justified, so do many friends. Why are you so pro-cop--I don't see years of experience to kiss their asses? You weren't There-- I read the original article, I see differences between it and the archives. This can't be changed, now. Again, I have no post about a kid on a tractor--I don't see one? Look up my B/C if you have such a great data base, before you dispute it. I could fax cop reports on other civil liberty violations, lawyer discussuions, Citizen's advisory Committe letters, etc, but again I was an eye witness and this would do no good to prove anything to you. If you promise to have an open eye I will.

My god your grammer is terrible.

Your post called it a "Caterpillar", the police called it a "Caterpillar brand earthmover". Stop trying to dance around being wrong.

Originally Posted by ninefingers

I've talked to others, we all agree you should take some Midol for your cramps.

Really? The people calling you an idiot are doing it publicly - I wonder why nobody but you is disagreeing with me on the open board.

[headcase]

*Ahem*, open carry. Everything else is fascinating and all but unless someone has something decisive to post then we're going nowhere.

[death-of-light]

all right headcase just because i love to see jackasses get verbally abused to tears ,
open carry -carrying a weapon outside of ones clothing ,or in plain site.

concealed carry- carrying a weapon under a coat ,concealed, or as i just love to see down in Harrisburg,tucked into your pants waiting to blow your dick off.

i remember someone telling me a while ago about a biker gang that wanted to carry their guns with them but didn't get concealed carry permits so they just wore them in big old western style holsters on their belts. legally the cops couldn't touch them,law changed but my point is still valid

[JOECRAZYKID]

What does CCW stand for?

Ninefingers anymore posts you'll be in china so stop posting im trying to help you, Shetlans right just because you can quote old tv shows doesn't mean your an old timer "who loves ya baby" please dont send me another letter that says i'm childish for agreeing with Shetlan

[FerretBone]

Originally Posted by ninefingers

SKS s/n 610671
Colt(replica) s/n L1215

Had many more in the past but as Registration not required in My state didn't record them.
_______________
"If you can't respect your elders, maybe you'll respect your betters."

1. You never post weapons serial numbers on the web. I could register your firearm in another state and later claim it was stolen. Seeing how your dumb enough to post your serial numbers online, I doubt you would be smart enough to defend yourself from the initial charges. The police will not help you trace the chain of possession to prove it was really yours. Then I would have a free SKS.

Whats to stop me from manufacturing 20 or 30 SKS's with your serial number on each. Then selling them on the TX side of the boarder. My sells pitch would be "own a clean registered firearm that will pass any police check, and if used in a crime it would be traced back to some other fool." That fool being you.

OR

More realisticly, illegally manufacturing an SKS with your serial number to aviod taxes and fees, and if my new weapon was ever ran or entered into the ATF data base,( I would have an exact copy of a legal firearm) they would never know the difference.

2. What the hell are you waiting for the NRA for? I do not understand what you are trying to prove. A news story of a CCW or CHL and a bad police arrest? If so, you can find hundreds on the internet.

3. CA is not a shall issuse state. Which means basicly it's up to the CLEO (chief law enforcement officer). Where Sheltan is living it may be a CCW heaven, but the rest of the state, its impossable to get a CCW without power or fame, and has been for years. California is the most populous state and has only issued about 40,000 concealed gun permits. Florida has issued 580,000. Georgia 300,000. I think Texas has around 450,000 CHL's.



Last week in congress while debating nation wide CCW reciprocity, SD Republican John Thune claimed FL had a 30% decress in murders after CCW has inacted. The bill fell a few votes short of being added to a defense bill as a ride along. It was a progun PR stunt that really would not have changed much, but I find it funny how close it came to passing in this democrat congress. The usual anti-gun nuts fought against it. Both senators from CA, and at least one from NJ, NY, MA, IL, and hawaii. LOL Hawaii??? Who gives a fuck about what Hawaii thinks? LOL


JOECRAZYKID, CCW is Concealed Carry Weapon, permit
In TX it's a CHL, Concealed Handgun License. Same thing.

[FerretBone]

Originally Posted by JOECRAZYKID

thanks draven

alright ninefingers even though you remind me of the snobby rich girl on charlie and the chocalat factory i will try and help, if you want people to trust you more and like you i think that of your own free will you should along with more serial numbers also put your social security and credit card numbers... hmm i'll think of more when i need money i mean when i want to help you

They've called me Ferretbone, Bullet Wizard, Mr. Helpful, The Unibanger, Dr. 11 inches, but never Draven lol


move along nothing else to see here.

[Paranoid Ecstasy]

Originally Posted by JOECRAZYKID

thanks draven

alright ninefingers even though you remind me of the snobby rich girl on charlie and the chocalat factory i will try and help, if you want people to trust you more and like you i think that of your own free will you should along with more serial numbers also put your social security and credit card numbers... hmm i'll think of more when i need money i mean when i want to help you

Before you go on "helping" anyone, help youself.
Learn grammar, spelling.


By the way, Ferret Bone, Draven is another member.


I live in Florida and was reading something about who can purchase a gun.
A drug addict is not allowed to purchase a gun.
Could this really be used to stop someone from owning a gun?

I will post the link when I find it.

[Ventanator]

Shetlan, you went to Berkely? Nice, I have a friend going there next fall. What did you major in?

Anyway, I can't wait until I'm old enough for a license to carry a weapon around. I'm guessing that it's 18, right?

As for the knives, I didn't even realize that there were laws about knives that applied when you are just out in public. Cops around here wouldn't mind you walking around with any kind of knife...but, I am in redneck capital of the Earth...

[shetlan]

Originally Posted by Ventanator

Shetlan, you went to Berkely? Nice, I have a friend going there next fall. What did you major in?

Political Science and Sociology

Originally Posted by Ventanator

Anyway, I can't wait until I'm old enough for a license to carry a weapon around. I'm guessing that it's 18, right?

You can't even buy a handgun till you're 21 - carry permit ages might vary.

Originally Posted by Ventanator

As for the knives, I didn't even realize that there were laws about knives that applied when you are just out in public. Cops around here wouldn't mind you walking around with any kind of knife...but, I am in redneck capital of the Earth...

Such laws exist, but they're rarely enforced.

[JOECRAZYKID]

Sorry I meant FerretBone I was looking at the wrong name.

This is good grammar most of the time I just write stuff in my version of english. I shall start writing better if it means that much to you people.

[FerretBone]

Paranoid Ecstasy,
Yeah I know Draven, well on this board at least. And one other.

FYI
In a lot of states you can buy, or be given a handgun at 18. But not from FFL. Almost all laws concerning buying firearms only applies to buying from FFL’s (firearms dealers) unless your in an anti gun state like CA.

A drug addict is not allowed to purchase a firearm. That is in the brady bill. (federal law)

But you can have many drug possession charges and still be able to own a firearm. You just cant be "convicted" of being a drug addict?
No really, People don’t get stopped from buying a weapon under this provision, unless they self admit it on the 4473 or yellow form you fill out at an FFL while buying a firearm.

[JOECRAZYKID]

Alright I deleted the post, now that I read it it was pretty dumb.

[CHEVY_454_POWER]

In pennsylvania, you can open carry at the age of 18. The firearm needs to be purchased for you buy a parent or gaurdian (may be other ways aswell). But you cannot travel in a motor vehicle with it loaded. I just spent the whole weekend open carrying an M&P .45 at 3 o'clock. I get alot of funny looks but thats about it. I was also with a couple of other guys who were o/c and we were in bdu's. So people may have thought we were law or military.

Chevy

[bloodlusta]

In NZ you can purchase firearms from 16 but there is no open carry AT ALL. That includes police and army (who do not directly require a firearm at that time). It is illegal to display a firearm in a public place. So any firearm in your car must be covered so no body can see it. However most people (outside Auckland) would have a rifle in their boot and that is perefctly legal. Open carry should be legal here but there is just not enough (legal) handgun owners to justify it. Cultualry NZ has alway leaned towards hunting rifles (partly to do witht he massive amounts that came back after the wars). My mate went through Alabama and saw people with rifles in the back of their utes and thought it was great. You have to be an American to open carry in America don't you? or could you just be a perminent recedent?

[Big Al]

Originally Posted by bloodlusta

In NZ you can purchase firearms from 16 but there is no open carry AT ALL. That includes police and army (who do not directly require a firearm at that time). It is illegal to display a firearm in a public place. So any firearm in your car must be covered so no body can see it. However most people (outside Auckland) would have a rifle in their boot and that is perefctly legal. Open carry should be legal here but there is just not enough (legal) handgun owners to justify it. Cultualry NZ has alway leaned towards hunting rifles (partly to do witht he massive amounts that came back after the wars). My mate went through Alabama and saw people with rifles in the back of their utes and thought it was great. You have to be an American to open carry in America don't you? or could you just be a perminent recedent?

As long as you can legally own a firearm, you can openly carry it. That will vary from state to state, depending on their laws on open carry, and whether or not legal alien residents can own firearms, but there is a silent push to make it so for any legal resident alien.

I believe federal law has no problem with it, and in Michigan, the part of our laws that restricted ownership from legal resident aliens has been defeated. In fact, here in Michigan, a legal resident alien can get a Concealed Pistol License as well.

[bloodlusta]

I know this is way off toplic but why do you call them aliens?

[Big Al]

Originally Posted by bloodlusta

I know this is way off toplic but why do you call them aliens?

That's how the law refers to any person, residing in a country of which they are NOT a citizen.

From Dictionary.com

alien:

1. a resident born in or belonging to another country who has not acquired citizenship by naturalization (distinguished from citizen ).

In the USA (and most other countries) if you are not a citizen of that country, born there or naturalized, then you are an "alien." Generally speaking, there are 2 classes of aliens, legal, and illegal.

A legal resident alien has filed all the proper forms, and paid any required fees to be in this country legally. An Illegal alien jumped a fence, swam a river, or came into this country in some other manner, or perhaps came here as a visitor, and stayed longer than they're supposed to. As well as a myriad of other ways they could have come here.

[bloodlusta]

Ah ok that clears it up for me. I knew it was a none national just thought it was only for illegals. (Here we just call them bloody foreiners)

[Big Al]

Originally Posted by bloodlusta

Ah ok that clears it up for me. I knew it was a none national just thought it was only for illegals. (Here we just call them bloody foreiners)

LOL.

When I was growing up, back in the 1960's, there used to be these PSAs on TV to remind resident aliens that they had to register, or something, or I guess just say "I'm still here." Don't really recall all that much. It was just one more "commercial" that interrupted my favorite TV shows.

[ninefingers]

Originally Posted by x29a

Pm'd
Now to get this thread back on track.
.

We Were on track. Shetlan asked for proof of O/C and C/C violations in AZ; I gave them to him. The earth mover incident post was long deleted; I don't know why he got on the rag about it. It isn't even there. But, he asked for "proof"; I P/M'd and emailed him and there it is in the post.
So, even with laws to permit O/C; we are still arrested by our Police on a "whim"; thinking they ca n disarm the public and so make streets safer. That was the Point.

[shetlan]

First off, he posted that almost a month ago. Stop trying to wake up dead threads so you can argue.

Originally Posted by ninefingers

We Were on track. Shetlan asked for proof of O/C and C/C violations in AZ; I gave them to him.

No, the only story you provided any links or back-up for was the earth mover story.

Originally Posted by ninefingers

The earth mover incident post was long deleted; I don't know why he got on the rag about it. It isn't even there.

It's not "long deleted" - it's not deleted at all. All the crap you posted about the earthmover incident is still there.

Originally Posted by ninefingers

But, he asked for "proof"; I P/M'd and emailed him and there it is in the post.

Your PMs and e-mails have been no more than harassment and attempts to start additional arguments. If I recall, you told me it would be a "violation of your first amendment rights" to post your e-mails or PMs.

Originally Posted by ninefingers

So, even with laws to permit O/C; we are still arrested by our Police on a "whim"; thinking they ca n disarm the public and so make streets safer. That was the Point.

A point you never made, never argued, and never presented any supporting evidence for.

[ninefingers]

Originally Posted by shetlan

First off, he posted that almost a month ago. Stop trying to wake up dead threads so you can argue.

No, the only story you provided any links or back-up for was the earth mover story.

It's not "long deleted" - it's not deleted at all. All the crap you posted about the earthmover incident is still there.


A point you never made, never argued, and never presented any supporting evidence for.

And, my P/M's Listed the "nonexistant" cops I had a beef with, and why. It is there--open your email and P/Ms. Or are you afraid?

No they aren't dead so long as not locked or over 3 or 4 months old. The original posting of the earthmover, cop hating, etc, I deleted months ago. Try look. And my proof is there--tough if your browser can't open it--or, did you try? Call Chas. GHeller at that Glendale; AZ; number and he'll supply you with hard copies. Again, you discredit/won't try my proof. You still don't post yours.

[shetlan]

Originally Posted by ninefingers

And, my P/M's Listed the "nonexistant" cops I had a beef with, and why. It is there--open your email and P/Ms. Or are you afraid?

Yes, you gave a list of names - no coroberating evidence that there was any wrong doing, no links to the events in question, nothing.

Originally Posted by ninefingers

No they aren't dead so long as not locked or over 3 or 4 months old. The original posting of the earthmover, cop hating, etc, I deleted months ago. Try look.

You deleted the first post, where you mentioned it. The post where you claimed to have evidence and wrote up your BS on teh earth mover incident is still there, retard. Twenty first post on the first page.

Originally Posted by ninefingers

And my proof is there--tough if your browser can't open it--or, did you try? Call Chas. GHeller at that Glendale; AZ; number and he'll supply you with hard copies. Again, you discredit/won't try my proof. You still don't post yours.

I never claimed to have any proof. You made claims about five events, I asked for proof of your claims and you provided none. The only attempt you made to provide proof, supplied evidence that was completely contradictory to your claims.

My god you're either a total idiot or just plain retarted, I can't decide which.

[ninefingers]

Originally Posted by shetlan

Yes, you gave a list of names - no coroberating evidence that there was any wrong doing, no links to the events in question, nothing.



You deleted the first post, where you mentioned it. The post where you claimed to have evidence and wrote up your BS on teh earth mover incident is still there, retard. Twenty first post on the first page.



I never claimed to have any proof. You made claims about five events, I asked for proof of your claims and you provided none. The only attempt you made to provide proof, supplied evidence that was completely contradictory to your claims.

My god you're either a total idiot or just plain retarted, I can't decide which.

Wrong, wrong. The Original post is what I mentioned--it IS long gone. I only brought up the road grader(NOT "Earth Mover"--Cat And Caterpillar are fine abbreviations--ask one who uses one) when you insisted of proof of the event. Read.

I contradicted Nothing except possibly the O/C in Napa--I WAS lied to in 1974 by an ignorant cop who was too lazy to pursue.

Links to the Events? Cops yelling at me? There is no report on these; you know it. The Cotati Incident was referring to a letter to me by Chief Wasko, Sept. 8 1993,
(707) 795-3642; Evidence report case #92-1483; and case # MCR-204728.This is in regards to incident of Dec. 1, 1992. Also, Attorney Karen Silver in Cotati was familiar with my complaint. Another Baddie: Cotati DA Gene Tunney.
The bad cops in Napa relate to Police reports I'd rather not make public. Call these P/D's; you will see these officers are (or, were )there. Besides, as I said, they write what they want; it is not necessarily True. (Now, who's being Gullible?) Since, in these cases, I was There.
I asked you for Proof of your age; mil service; college; C/W permit; and the claims against Mormonism.( I did not link you to Lucifer Link,You said that. I 'm just saying they spew anti-Mormon tripe like you and refuse to acknowledge any dissenting proof that is sent to them. I thought you'd gotten some off it or some similar link .) You never came through--so, is Obama not a citizen, either, since you insist he didn't "surrender" his B/C? (Check it out, he did.)

[Big Al]

Ok, there's the guy in Pennsylvania who was arrested for OCing OUTSIDE a political rally for then Senator Obama. MTN Jack ARRESTED for OC near Obama rally site! This was in spite of the fact he was OUTSIDE the Secret Service protection zone. It took almost a year, but he was found innocent.

For more, I suggest checking out The Ridley Report. He has a lot of stuff on how various OCers, including himself have been "questioned" for simply OCing.

I would also suggest checking out the Forums at OpenCarry.org They have a lot of first hand stories of people who have either been arrested, or at the very least hassled and berated by police for Open Carry, in spite of state laws that say OC is legal.

[ninefingers]

So, there.

Are you going to not believe him, either, Shetlan?

Call Chas. Heller or this website Big Al has given--the AZ and other problems wirh carry arrests are There.

I was given a flyer by the AZOC people at a Gun show last Sept.--their number and website were there, they told of the horror stories in Tucson..was I to say:"You're a Liar" to Mr. Heller's Face?

[bloodlusta]

Originally Posted by Big Al

Ok, there's the guy in Pennsylvania who was arrested for OCing OUTSIDE a political rally for then Senator Obama. MTN Jack ARRESTED for OC near Obama rally site! This was in spite of the fact he was OUTSIDE the Secret Service protection zone. It took almost a year, but he was found innocent.

For more, I suggest checking out The Ridley Report. He has a lot of stuff on how various OCers, including himself have been "questioned" for simply OCing.

I would also suggest checking out the Forums at OpenCarry.org They have a lot of first hand stories of people who have either been arrested, or at the very least hassled and berated by police for Open Carry, in spite of state laws that say OC is legal.

Are you taking referance to the man who ahd the sign saying äbout time to water the tree?"?

[Big Al]

Originally Posted by bloodlusta

Are you taking referance to the man who ahd the sign saying äbout time to water the tree?"?

Nope,different guy, and as far as I know, that guy with that sign didn't get arrested.

[ninefingers]

Originally Posted by JOECRAZYKID

What does CCW stand for?

Ninefingers anymore posts you'll be in china so stop posting im trying to help you, Shetlans right just because you can quote old tv shows doesn't mean your an old timer "who loves ya baby" please dont send me another letter that says i'm childish for agreeing with Shetlan

Anyone on this post should know what CCW stands for-- it is:"Carrying a Concealed Weapon." It is related to O/C vs, C/C--what I've proven with references that even though O/C OK, people still get busted for "concealed" because some judge bends the letter of the law.

"in china?" A threat?

Besides; I am only doing what S. wanted and given him proof. He has done me one good turn though--I now try to have my stuff together Before posting, even if nobody asks. I do this on All forums.

You are no help if you just whole hog say S. is right--I never quoted old TV shows to "prove" my age. I only quoted an old M*A*S*H. S. twisted it into that.

Where should I send anything? Clog up the forum with counters to things that would get off subject?

Look at S's. idiotic earlier posts, referring to a post I deleted because it was off subject and seemed to get his undies in a bunch. They look very silly, hanging in air. He should delete these--shows he only reads what he wants and takes things out of context and re-edits them. He should work for Michael Moore..

S. can't disprove anything; I have sent proof. If he doesn't know how to open it, too bad..plus, there are phone numbers. He
should Call them--it's called a "telephone"--or check websites or google the case headings.

[headcase]

For the record, members can't permanently delete posts as moderators can still view them. Equally, if a post is edited moderators can view the previous copies. The earth mover post still seems to be there (#21) with the only deleted post on page 1 of this thread being ninefingers';

I wouldn't O/C Anywhere in AZ right now--I can dig up the news blogs to prove it. All a cop has to do is be on the wrong side of you to say you're "concealed carry w/o permit". I have NRA blogs about complaints of this--or you can go to NRA.com, they've had a field day with Tucson CCW "violations". Whole families have gotten busted because the driver (husband) had a gun near the hand brake and a cop didn't "immediately" see it although the driver had declared it. The husband got off as he had a CCW but the rest of the family didn't, even though the gun was in plain sight. Again, I have news blogs about other cases and eyewitnesses--this is perhaps not the place for a general critique of PD's.

If someone wants an old post dragged up then I might be able to. Especially if they know the thread or the rough time of posting.