Locksmith and lost Car keys

[Sniper23]

I read in an auto book that if you lost your car keys a locksmith could make you a new set of keys based on the lock, VIN, and make and model of the vehicle.

So my question is if you could find a vehicle and some how produce the title and a fake ID matching the name on the title (assuming the locksmith would check that) would you then be able to steal the vehicle?? Would it be that easy?

My apologies perhaps this thread should have been posted in the Lock Picking and Auto theft section .

[shetlan]

Why would you go to all that trouble? You can buy "universal keys" from different locksmithing companies that will let you open and start almost any vehicle. This wouldn't cost you anymore than hiring a locksmith to make you a key.

[db]

What are these "universal keys" you talk about sheltan? Yes, calling a locksmith and having fake documents can work.

[Sniper23]

Im assuming he means these Master Key Auto Jigglers - The BudK Catalog Good point tho. I guess having fake documents would be alot more work, however atleast you would have a permant key if you were planning to keep the car. Hypothetically of couse

[db]

I suspect he was thinking of those. Those can open quite a few cars, but there are plenty of cars that won't start with just that tool alone.

[shetlan]

Auto Jigglers are a pale comparison to actual master keys (aka tryout keys). Auto Jigglers are picks - these keys are tailored to specific brands.

Ford Master Keys : Ford Master Tryout Keys for sale!

Ford set $129.99
GM set $99.99

Of course there are other sets available from other companies.

[db]

Still you won't be starting many cars with those sets.

[shetlan]

Originally Posted by db

Still you won't be starting many cars with those sets.

And by what virtue do you make that baseless statement?
Buying the GM set would allow you to open any model of Buick, Cadillac, Chevy, GMC, Hummer, Pontiac, Saab, or Saturn - with a 75% success rate.

[db]

Transponders shetlan. While those keys can start some cars out there, however, many cannot be started with those try out keys. Transponders have now been out 23 years and are increasing greatly.

GM started VATS in 86 for the Camero. Later on (89-99ish) GM moved to Passkey I & II, which was very similar to VATS. These keys alone won't start a VATS or Passkey I & II system. So can rule out starting a number of GM cars from the 88-99ish period.

Next, GM moved on Passlock I & II. This is where GM took a step back and dropped the ball when it came to security. Passlock was designed to prevent only against force tools. Those try out keys will allow you to steal a vehicle equipped with Passlock.

Later GM released Passkey III, which is a transponder system. You can find these on 98-current cars on selected models. These keys will also not work alone to steal the vehicle with this system.

Now lets move to Ford/Lincon/Mercury

Ford/Lincon/Mercury started with PATS for the Mustang in 96 although it really didn't catch on until 99ish for most Ford models except their super duty trucks (F250 and higher), which caught on in 07 I believe. I know it was after 06.

Next we have Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep

They too started moving into transponders with their Sentry Key Ignition Module (SKIM) in 99ish.

Honda started with their system in 98 for the Accord.

Like I said shetlan, still many cars out there that you won't be starting with just those keys alone (although you can open them).

Here are some cars I can think of off the top of my head that can and cannot be stolen with those keys alone. Those keys can open many of these cars though.

Can
85- Any model GM
96- Any model Ford (except Mustang in 96)
00-03 Ford Escorts
06- GM Escalade
06- Any Kia except Amanti
07? 06(for sure)- Ford 250 super duty trucks
98+ Ford Explorer


Can't
99+ Ford (except super duty trucks, vans, and Explorer)
88-99 GM Caddie
07+ GM Escalade
98+ Crown Victoria
97+ Ford Expedition
98+ Honda Accord
00+ Nissian Altima
00+ Dodge Neon
99+ Jeep Cherokee

[shetlan]

I believe the term "big whoop" is appropriate here.

Though the transponders are becoming more prevalent, there are still a massive number of cars on the road that don't have them (likely most don't).

Talking down tryout keys on the grounds that they don't work with transponder systems is like talking down traditional lock-picks because they don't work on tubular locks - two different problems solved by two different tools.

None the less, for sniper23's purposes, the tryout keys would provide him with a workable key allowing him to circumvent the need for a locksmith to produce a key from the lock. Incidentally, if the key employs a transponder, a locksmith would be unable to produce a usable duplicate either - he would need to take it to the company for a replacement key (as far as I know).

Returning to the original question:
Producing a fake ID that matching the title and registration would be enough to pass extremely light inspection. Obviously if a police officer chose to check further, he would be able to find a DL photo of the owner - proving that you aren't the owner.

You can get a key for the car far more easily than you can clean it on paper. If you want to "clean" the car, you need to take it out of state, change the vin, and re-register it as a different car.

[db]

I believe the term "big whoop" is appropriate here.

Though the transponders are becoming more prevalent, there are still a massive number of cars on the road that don't have them (likely most don't).

I never said transponders were installed on the majority of the cars that operate on the road today. I simply stated that those keys alone would not start many cars, which I backed up in my previous post with a small list of cars.

I think you overstated "start almost any car". Plenty of cars out there they won't start and that number increases each day.

Talking down tryout keys on the grounds that they don't work with transponder systems is like talking down traditional lock-picks because they don't work on tubular locks - two different problems solved by two different tools.

Yes, but the topic was stealing a car not opening locks. Those keys can work on a number of cars, but if the car is newer it has a higher probability of being transponder equipped and those keys won't help achieve his objective if it is transponder equipped. On the other hand, calling a locksmith out will (in most cases) resolve his problem since they have all tools required to generate keys and if necessary reprogram the security system.

[shetlan]

Originally Posted by db

I think you overstated "start almost any car". Plenty of cars out there they won't start and that number increases each day.

100% - grade A - Semantics

[Sniper23]

Im a bit confused. What exactly is a transponder?

[Pikkle Juice]

1.locksmiths cannot reprogram a key or the ignition(i had to send out for a new key from the dealership as an anti-theft precaution)car companies dont hand out there reprogramming technology to really anybody but reputable dealers also if you can get your hands on reprogramming technology or hardware that could be really usefull

2.a transponder is the chip inside the key and the ignition that match up to make sure no one is stealing your car

3.im preaty sure that those companies track their sales so if alot of auto thefts occur in your area after you get one its gonna raise a flag

[db]

Originally Posted by Pikkle Juice

1.locksmiths cannot reprogram a key or the ignition(i had to send out for a new key from the dealership as an anti-theft precaution)car companies dont hand out there reprogramming technology to really anybody but reputable dealers also if you can get your hands on reprogramming technology or hardware that could be really usefull

Locksmiths can reprogram keys for many cars. NGS, T-code/T300, and SDD are tools made for the locksmith for this purpose. Companies don't give their info out, but other companies reverse engineer the systems or individuals attach hardware to the CAN bus and intercept the dealer's tool command.

3.im preaty sure that those companies track their sales so if alot of auto thefts occur in your area after you get one its gonna raise a flag

Not too hard to get your hands on these tools and be fairly anonymous. Some U.S. companies will take a money order and the Chinese love taking WU.

[Ventanator]

I've never seen a locksmith who could reproduce a key with a transponder in it. I have a '90 Camaro with one and I lost the key and had to go to a Chevy dealer, who in turn had to order one from the factory. We called every place in the yellow pages that looked like they might be able to and none could, but I do live in a pretty small place so that might just be where I am...

And about the universal keys, Ford keys from the same year open each other, or something like that. I locked the keys in my truck ('03 F150) while hunting one time and a friend opened my door with his key from a '0-something Explorer...I don't know the exact details on which keys work with what, but if I remember right his words were "These Ford keys are all alike." That's probably not right (surely not, right?), but it did work between those two...

[db]

Originally Posted by Ventanator

I've never seen a locksmith who could reproduce a key with a transponder in it. I have a '90 Camaro with one and I lost the key and had to go to a Chevy dealer, who in turn had to order one from the factory. We called every place in the yellow pages that looked like they might be able to and none could, but I do live in a pretty small place so that might just be where I am...

Sounds like your area. Locksmith with a VATS interrogator or all 15 value keys could generate a key for you.

And about the universal keys, Ford keys from the same year open each other, or something like that. I locked the keys in my truck ('03 F150) while hunting one time and a friend opened my door with his key from a '0-something Explorer...I don't know the exact details on which keys work with what, but if I remember right his words were "These Ford keys are all alike." That's probably not right (surely not, right?), but it did work between those two...

Both use the same code series (as well as most other Fords in this year range)and use the same mechanical key so they are very much alike. With manufacturing slop, wear on the wafers and key, and in some cases luck; definitely possible to open another vehicle with another key.