The 'Official' Shoplifting & Retail Fraud Thread

[Bankraped]

Originally Posted by Heartshock

ok thanks lurtz im heading out now if i dont reply for more than 5 hours youll know lol

He posted that on Friday.... Maybe he got caught?

[Mentos]

Where I live the Wal-Mart garden center's are closed for the winter now.

I would use this as a 2nd or 3rd door all the time...

Anyone else frusterated by this?

On the brighter side the weather does now allow for wearing bulky coats.

This can help but I get sweaty when im in the store lol.

[bloodlusta]

You have to be very carful when working in teams. I have learnt that often people can panic if you are going after something expensive. Also if one person gets caught they ay often rat out the others in a group.

For this reason i only use large group when going after high price items. e.g. jewelry

This is purely hypothetical, and i in no way plan to or have preformed what i mention below.

I will set a group set up to steal some jewelry. we were a team of 4 . the first persons job was to ask to buy some jewelry. when the jewelry was on the counter in front of him. the second person rang the shop from a pay phone. as the worker turned round to answer the phone the 3rd person who was also in the store moved between the worker with her back turned and the 1st person and pocketed some of the jewelry on the counter at the same times this happens the 4th person rings the 1st person, giving them an excuse to turn away. he then claimed he had not seen what had happened.

[Tane Te Tu]

Hmmmmmm

Sounds like a good plan.

It does have some issues like; what happens when there are more staff ect.

Hypothetical aye? Wasn't there some rings stolen from an Auckland Jeweler's store while the serving lady turned away? It was in the paper.

Apparently they were worth a bit.

[bloodlusta]

I had nothing to do with that. this is just a plan

[40ozRob]

Where do they usually leave the security tags in books? I know that they can have the little strips of metal in between pages but can they be left anywhere else?

[Paranoid Ecstasy]

Originally Posted by 40ozRob

Where do they usually leave the security tags in books? I know that they can have the little strips of metal in between pages but can they be left anywhere else?

The spine of the book, the last page and the back of the book.
Those are all common places for the security tag.

[oLsD x AciDiko]

if you want something small and get tired of paying for them(aka condoms) what you do is you go to a grocery store and find the section where they sell it. Grab a pack and just keep it in your hands. Go to an isle where nobody is and where cameras are unable to spot you. Put the box on the shelf behind a big item like paper towels or something. Open the box and take the condoms and put them in your pocket. Just leave the box behind the last item on the shelf and it wont be found for weeks. I worked at a grocery store and stole about 30 condoms a day. Sold them to little kids and used some too. Made money had sex and got free condoms and never even came close to getting caught. It works really well.

[jrly]

I have never seen or bought a book that had a security tag in it, maybe just the expensive textbooks have them?

[bloodlusta]

same. id didn't even know they did. I thought the scanners just somehow read the barcode and worked out if it had been brought.

Am i right or am i just sounding really stupid?

[Persian]

Referring to books here:
Over here, lots of shops dont even have security/scanners at the door to detect if you're taking anything out. You can just walk straight out with a book and they won't notice.

****

Over here (australia), i see heaps of shops, books, groceries even jewelry leaving stuff outside the shop (like to advertise it or something).
These things can be simply grabbed by anyone as you walk past and no one would know.

[Paranoid Ecstasy]

Alot of stores may not have security tags on books.
But I know for my library those are the common places to look when stealing a book.

[40ozRob]

Originally Posted by Paranoid Ecstasy

The spine of the book, the last page and the back of the book.
Those are all common places for the security tag.

Would they embed it in the spine of a paperback? I know it might be a somewhat stupid question since the spine is glued shut but who knows...maybe they put tags in at the factory or something...

[40ozRob]

Originally Posted by oLsD x AciDiko

if you want something small and get tired of paying for them(aka condoms) what you do is you go to a grocery store and find the section where they sell it. Grab a pack and just keep it in your hands. Go to an isle where nobody is and where cameras are unable to spot you. Put the box on the shelf behind a big item like paper towels or something. Open the box and take the condoms and put them in your pocket. Just leave the box behind the last item on the shelf and it wont be found for weeks. I worked at a grocery store and stole about 30 condoms a day. Sold them to little kids and used some too. Made money had sex and got free condoms and never even came close to getting caught. It works really well.

You do know that they give them away for free at health centers and hospitals (at least here (England) they do, I would assume they would do it most other places).

[Paranoid Ecstasy]

Paper back books generally don't have security tags.

[MC.]

Over here, (in the US) I don't know of any booksellers that have security tags.
Barnes and Noble, B. Dalton, and Borders all have multiple stores near where I live, and I lift books from all three quite frequently and I have yet to find any security tags.

The only place that I have seen that has security tags are University libraries (I don't know about local/town libraries).

[MC.]

Do they actually work?

I have heard mixed reviews about them. Now I know that they are "supposed" to block the RF signal emitted from the tranmitter from reaching the tag. Which prevents the signal from being altered by the tag and then being picked up by the reciever. I am aware that you can test this by using a cell phone, as they operate using RF's as well. But i'm not sure if the fact that the signal is being deflected will be picked up by the reciever.

However with EM tags, will a Magic Bag work, or do I need to use a magnet to diactivate it prior to passing through the security "checkpoint"? If I do need to use a magnet, any suggestions on where to pick up an appropriate strength one?

[master lurtz]

Originally Posted by Paranoid Ecstasy

Paper back books generally don't have security tags.

No but expensive hard cover ones generally do, but it depends on the bookshop. With hardbacks you can usually open the book up and look down the gap in the spine to see if there are any tags (the tags will usually look like little white things about 40mm x 10mm x 2-3mm for those who dont know (at least thats what they usually look like here)) you can sometimes pull them out with needle nosed plyers because they are just stuck on with weak glue.

Does anyone know if those things by the door, that I assume are there to dectect tags, are even real in some bookshops. Because at Whitcouls they have them, but in my experiance none of the books there even have tags... Maby they are just docoys to deter people like us?

I guess I could test it using a reactivated tag from anotherr shop, but the knowlage gaind would not realy be worth the effort.

[bloodlusta]

they do work. If you have a phone with bluetooth turned on they go off

[master lurtz]

Donno If this answers you questions or not, The bold stuff might help, but by the sound of your post you already know most of the other stuff:

Originally Posted by master lurtz

DEFEATING SHOPLIFTING SECURITY TAGS:

Generally, three types of security tags are used:

Radio Frequency Tags -
These are a spiral shape. They can be disarmed by making a slit in them. Sometimes radio frequency tags are actually embedded in the cardboard packaging.

Electromagnetic strips -
These are a tiny strip of metal. They can usually be pulled off but if you want to disarm them, you can do so by magnetising them. They can be magnetised by waving a powerful magnet in front of the strip repeatedly for 20-40 seconds.

Acousto-magnetic tags -
These tags are a centimetre in length and width. They stick out of the box about a sixteenth of an inch. There are three metal strips going through these type of tags, one of the strips actually shrinks if you go through the sensor and it sets off the alarm. You can disarm these tags by demagnetising them.

You can demagnetise an acousto-magnetic tag by waving a regular magnet over it several times, in a different direction each time. Another way of demagnetising them would be to use one of the two magnets inside your computer. It depends on what computer you have but a lot of the time these magnets aren't needed. I took mine out of my computer and they work good because they have a North Pole and South Pole on either end and either face of the magnet. (They are able to do this because they are made of two different metals.) i.e.

North South
__+___________________-__
|____________|____________|
- +
South North

FAQ:

"If I line the inside of a bag with tin foil and put a stolen object inside, will it set off the alarm?" Despite popular belief, the tin foil will not shield the contents of the bag from the magnetism. Foil will work with radio frequency tags (the ones that look like a spiral), by shielding the tag from any radio frequency (RF).

---

"How do radio frequency tags work?"

A transmitter sends out a RF, the tag picks up the RF and emits its own RF that is picked up by a receiver.

---

"Why would making a slit in an RF tag disarm it?"

If you make a single break in the spiral, the circuit will be open and thus can no longer produce any RF.

---

"In disarming acusto-magnetic tags, what's the advantage in having a north and south pole on either end of either face of the magnet?"

When something becomes magnetized e.g. a piece of iron, all that is happening is that the magnetic atoms of the material are becoming aligned (they point the same way). The south pole of the magnet is moving the magnetic atoms in one direction and the north pole of the magnet is moving the magnetic atoms in a different direction. Because the magnetic atoms are not pointing the same way, they are not aligned and thus, not magnetized. Demagnetising the tag can be done quicker with the computer magnet because if you sweep the magnet over the tag 5-10 times, it will more than likely be demagnetised. While with a regular magnet, I'd sweep it over the tag around 30 times just to be on the safe side.

If you are still unsure that these methods work, go to your local CD shop (they usually use electromagnetic strips) and take the strip off the CD, magnetise it and stick it to somebody's back. See if the alarm goes off when they walk out.

By the way this info was taken from rorta.

[master lurtz]

Correct me if im wrong but I didnt know bluetooth was EM... which is what the majority of sensors work on..
Or are they RF? Im too poor to have a phone with blootooth anyway

[S7@1T3D]

Try searching faraday cage/shield/bag on google.

if failing that try this Faraday cage - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Muh-Dick]

Im going to test this out, I guess all it is is a bag, tin foil and duct tape. I think the best way to test this is to go to a store and just put a couple of barcode tags and those magnetic tag things in the bag and go through the security thingy. I wouldnt trust the cellphone thing...thats probably just something a kid on rotteneggs made up.

[jrly]

They usually search a bag, unless you are a woman and it is your purse, which now that of it, it is kind of sexist/discriminatory maybe next time someone searches my bag I'll bring it up.

[MC.]

Thanks Master Lurtz, that's the information I was looking for regarding EM tags.

Does anyone know of a "Magic Bag"-esque device that could block RF signals as well as the EM waves. I know lead should be able to block EM waves, but i'm not sure of what thickness I would need to use.

I'd probably be better off just using a magnet rather then using lead.

Muh-Dick: Placing your cell phone in the "Magic Bag" is an appropriate way to test it, since RF tags and cell phones both operate using RF frequencies. If you phone can't get a signal inside the bag, then you should be all set. But I would still put a few more layers of aluminum foil on it, just to be safe. (Since RF security "checkpoints" emit a signal more powerful then stander cell phones.)

S7@1T3D: Thanks for the link, I forgot all about Faraday Cages.

[MC.]

Originally Posted by master lurtz

Does anyone know if those things by the door, that I assume are there to dectect tags, are even real in some bookshops. Because at Whitcouls they have them, but in my experiance none of the books there even have tags... Maby they are just docoys to deter people like us?

I guess I could test it using a reactivated tag from anotherr shop, but the knowlage gaind would not realy be worth the effort.

I'm not sure, at Borders, and B. Dalton they don't even have them. However at Barnes and Noble the have what look like security checkpoints, but they're wooden, and I have yet to find anything in that store that does have a security device on it. So I figure that they are just for looks.

[bloodlusta]

My mate walked through them with a small book in his pocket and the beeper went off. the staff member asked if he had a bluetooth phone and he said "yeah" and she said that explains it. so im just assuming it will set them off

[Mentos]

Interesting. Has anyone seen any other articles on deactivating acousto-magnetic tags by using magnets?

[Heartshock]

Hey guys, im sorry i never got back to you i sorta got busted opening the boxes by an employee and because i told them i just wanted to see the whole item out of the box i didnt get in any real trouble BUT to avoid trouble i had to for 2 weeks without pay walk around the store watching for shoplifters i busted a woman stealing bras and a man trying to steal a DVD and let me tell you it sucks to be undercover T_T walking in the same store in circles 8 hours a day so if you guys need any info about those undercover workers just ask me ive had my share of knowledge of them

[MC.]

Originally Posted by Heartshock

Hey guys, im sorry i never got back to you i sorta got busted opening the boxes by an employee and because i told them i just wanted to see the whole item out of the box i didnt get in any real trouble BUT to avoid trouble i had to for 2 weeks without pay walk around the store watching for shoplifters i busted a woman stealing bras and a man trying to steal a DVD and let me tell you it sucks to be undercover T_T walking in the same store in circles 8 hours a day so if you guys need any info about those undercover workers just ask me ive had my share of knowledge of them

BS.

There's no way that Wal-mart would have you do that, even if you had been caught actually lifting something.

No one is going to believe that.