Paedophilia

[Draven]

Originally Posted by Steve_TPF

I agree that teenage pregnancies are undesirable, but if you feel that strongly about it why are you opposed to abortion?

Because I feel its an easy out. Why take responsibility your pregnancy, when you can just have an abortion, right? Either be an adult and think responsbily or deal with the consiquences. If the child suffers it doesn't suffer because of society it suffers because mommy and daddy have no self control.

[Core Entropy]

Ah i see what Draven is saying. When someone can have sex and then is to stupid to use a condom or a steady dose of birth control, and THEN has a way out through the government or medical procedures it just encourages more girls to do the same. They feel as if they are invincible because they can have sex and then not worry about it if they lose their next period. In my opinion Abortions should go towards three types of people:
Rape Victims

Woman whose children are going to have full on defects (as in missing limbs or mental defects)

Or Woman who are completely alone with no shelter etc.

[jrly]

Originally Posted by Draven

No I'd take away free abortions, health care and food stamps to dumb bitches who get pregnant without intending to raise a family. Natural selection, right? In Mexico (age of conscent 12 remember) they have fewer teen pregnancies then in the U.S. why? Because the pressure to raise the child is on families involved and not the government/tax payers.

I would think that is actually from Mexico's Catholicism. You know this goes against what you have said in this thread, because if we were to do that there would be a worse gene pool since, generally, the woman who get pregnant earlier are not as intelligent, and I know this is not always true, it's just a generalization.

[Draven]

Originally Posted by jrly

I would think that is actually from Mexico's Catholicism. You know this goes against what you have said in this thread, because if we were to do that there would be a worse gene pool since, generally, the woman who get pregnant earlier are not as intelligent, and I know this is not always true, it's just a generalization.

Mexico's catholic background is part of that, yes but so to is the fact Mexico doesn't have a welfare system. Among the poor aunts and grandmother still deliever children in Mexico.

As for being against the eugenics arguement... Not all, genes only go so far and intellect basically comes down to this; someone has to ask me if I want fries with that. To be blunt stupid people need to exist, they are followers and we need people to follow orders. However, if we natural selection and personal responsibility American wouldn't be leading first world countries; UK, Canada, USA, New Zealand & Austrilla in teen pregnancy would we?

[Draven]

Originally Posted by Core Entropy

Ah i see what Draven is saying. When someone can have sex and then is to stupid to use a condom or a steady dose of birth control, and THEN has a way out through the government or medical procedures it just encourages more girls to do the same. They feel as if they are invincible because they can have sex and then not worry about it if they lose their next period. In my opinion Abortions should go towards three types of people:

Yep thats it I personally can only see abortion for violent rape victems, life threatening medical issues to the parent &/or the child. Birth defects is kind of a gray area for me but under no way can I see income as being as issue for abortions; since a) contraceptives are pass out for free and b) there is simply the opion to not have sex in the first place. Hell if you that kind of human contact for emotion support or just want to fuck for fun there is this thing called oral sex. I see a female getting drunk at a party and sleeping with some random guy and then wasting my tax dollars to get welfare and/or abortions is a prime target for forced steralization. I'm a big fan of the don't work don't eat policy...

[Steve_TPF]

Originally Posted by Draven

Because I feel its an easy out. Why take responsibility your pregnancy, when you can just have an abortion, right? Either be an adult and think responsbily or deal with the consiquences. If the child suffers it doesn't suffer because of society it suffers because mommy and daddy have no self control.

So you would rather see children born into disadvantaged situations, just to satisfy your sense of self-righteousness? Taking away the option of abortion doesn't make people become responsible. Even in places that don't allow abortion, women still get pregnant.

And as you pointed out, many of these kids are supported by welfare, which makes them everyone else's problem. Besides, it's easy to say "people should be responsible", (by which you mean women,) you ignore the fact that young girls won't (or can't). An unwanted pregnancy to a young teenager benefits no-one. Not usually the child either.

[Draven]

Originally Posted by Steve_TPF

So you would rather see children born into disadvantaged situations, just to satisfy your sense of self-righteousness? Taking away the option of abortion doesn't make people become responsible. Even in places that don't allow abortion, women still get pregnant.

And as you pointed out, many of these kids are supported by welfare, which makes them everyone else's problem. Besides, it's easy to say "people should be responsible", (by which you mean women,) you ignore the fact that young girls won't (or can't). An unwanted pregnancy to a young teenager benefits no-one. Not usually the child either.

Thats were I disagree, discribe a disadvantaged situation? Poor (low income) isn't a disadvantage its a way of life in many small towns in America and worse in 3rd world countries people deal with all the time they can to. When I say people need to be more responsible I mean both men and women; in a culture (here in the US) were condoms are passed out for free like candy there is no excuse for not using them.

There is no excuse for being stupid and nothing you can say can convence me otherwise. If our society did not exist to allow abortions then what? Oh yeah, we still exist in culture were sex before marrage was frowned on and you still had to take care of the kid if you got pregnant. Society no long demands the chastity of a women (they have equal rights); so them you can either exercise self control or deal with outcome. Natural selection, the stronger-smarter animals survive and weak and stupid die out...

[Steve_TPF]

Originally Posted by Draven

Thats were I disagree, discribe a disadvantaged situation? Poor (low income) isn't a disadvantage its a way of life in many small towns in America and worse in 3rd world countries people deal with all the time they can to.

Being poor isn't a disadvantage? You need a reality check. Not everyone has a guaranteed welfare safety net, free medical care etc. BTW, the child mortality rate in third world countries is extremely high.

Originally Posted by Draven

There is no excuse for being stupid and nothing you can say can convence me otherwise. If our society did not exist to allow abortions then what? Oh yeah, we still exist in culture were sex before marrage was frowned on and you still had to take care of the kid if you got pregnant. Society no long demands the chastity of a women (they have equal rights); so them you can either exercise self control or deal with outcome. Natural selection, the stronger-smarter animals survive and weak and stupid die out...

I didn't say there was an excuse for stupidity. I said you weren't doing a child any favours by demanding it be born disadvantaged, or at all in some cases.
Natural selection? It isn't the stupid parents who will suffer most, it's the children. So obviously their welfare isn't your concern.

[Draven]

Originally Posted by Steve_TPF

Being poor isn't a disadvantage? You need a reality check. Not everyone has a guaranteed welfare safety net, free medical care etc. BTW, the child mortality rate in third world countries is extremely high.

I didn't say there was an excuse for stupidity. I said you weren't doing a child any favours by demanding it be born disadvantaged, or at all in some cases.
Natural selection? It isn't the stupid parents who will suffer most, it's the children. So obviously their welfare isn't your concern.

Being poor is a part of life, I grew up with a single working mom, because my my dad was alcoholic who refuse to pay child support. And since my mom was working we couldn't get a welfare check or food stamps. I'm lower middle class because while other kids were trying to get the girl I was hanging out in the liberary or in a martial arts school trying to better myself. I joined the army and had $200 out of every check set aside in a saving a account I couldn't touch, I invest my time and money and with self-discipline and hard work spent my time on self-improvement. So if I seem like an asshole; its because I've been their and done that.

Is being poor a disadvantage yes, but its a disadvantage you can not over come. As for suffering; it goes back to what I said in eugenic thread we get stronger from competition and through hardships, so is it a reason for abortion no its a excused used to cop out on having work a little harded or discopline yourself to get what you want. No the child's welfare isn't my concern its the parent's concern and something they should have considered before having unprotected sex. As far as I'm concerned a disadvantage is one you can not overcome, a minor hardship isn't a disadvantage its set back.

[paininvmuthafuckinass]

The difference in power only comes into play if coercion and manipulation are involved. If you think that younger people can't participate or benefit from pleasurable sexual experiences then YOU are the one living in la-la land. Aside from the fact that a lot of kids CAN make responsible decisions, it shouldn't matter. The adult can make responsible decisions for both of them, and if the adult chooses to take advantage of the situation and abuse, "molest", coerce, force, manipulate, or hurt a child then the adult should be punished, but NONE of these things are inherent in sexual activity. Explain to me what's so "adult" about sex that younger people can't possibly understand? Enlighten me as to how an orgasm is a horrible, nasty thing unless you're a certain age. The little victim-mentality that we force on children when it comes to sex is what fucks them up, not the sexual activity itself.

Shove a cold one up ya, narrow minded pricks.

[Steve_TPF]

Originally Posted by Draven

Is being poor a disadvantage yes, but its a disadvantage you can not over come.

"A disadvantage you can not overcome?" So you agree with me then? This is why you have to check your grammar Draven, you just said the exact opposite of what you meant.

Regardless, our positions aren't reconcilable. You are against abortion simply to punish irresponsible people, whereas I don't believe in perpetuating a problem. If you are so in favour of natural "selection" then you should be glad when stupid people don't breed.

Anyway, most of this should have gone in the abortion thread. I'm surprised headcase hasn't told us off already.

[Draven]

Originally Posted by Steve_TPF

"A disadvantage you can not overcome?" So you agree with me then? This is why you have to check your grammar Draven, you just said the exact opposite of what you meant.

Regardless, our positions aren't reconcilable. You are against abortion simply to punish irresponsible people, whereas I don't believe in perpetuating a problem. If you are so in favour of natural "selection" then you should be glad when stupid people don't breed.

Anyway, most of this should have gone in the abortion thread. I'm surprised headcase hasn't told us off already.

Your right I meant a disadvantage you can over come.

[bloodlusta]

being poor is very hard to over come (i speak from experience). when you are poor and you are raised in a family that does not value hard work and in fact criticizes people who do you hard. you can't just "go and get a job" because you have no idea what it means to work or to put effort into something. it is very easy to sit there and say why can't they just get a better job?

[quote]Being poor is a part of life, I grew up with a single working mom, because my my dad was alcoholic who refuse to pay child support. And since my mom was working we couldn't get a welfare check or food stamps. I'm lower middle class because while other kids were trying to get the girl I was hanging out in the liberary or in a martial arts school trying to better myself. I joined the army and had $200 out of every check set aside in a saving a account I couldn't touch, I invest my time and money and with self-discipline and hard work spent my time on self-improvement. So if I seem like an asshole; its because I've been their and done that. [quote]


I had a similar situation growing up, except i did not have the drive to succeed that you had/have. In fact if it wasn't for all my uncle had done for me i would be living in a state house in south auckland living on the dole.

[Draven]

Originally Posted by bloodlusta

being poor is very hard to over come (i speak from experience). when you are poor and you are raised in a family that does not value hard work and in fact criticizes people who do you hard. you can't just "go and get a job" because you have no idea what it means to work or to put effort into something. it is very easy to sit there and say why can't they just get a better job?

I had a similar situation growing up, except i did not have the drive to succeed that you had/have. In fact if it wasn't for all my uncle had done for me i would be living in a state house in south auckland living on the dole.

But see thats the point. its a disadvantage; a challenge to be over came. I have a friend, I love him to death he is like my little brother, but he is a fucking lazy ass bum (to be blunt) the kid has a great mind and is great shape as far as size and strength go. But all that natural ability gets him no where because he is too lazy to use any (muchless all) of that natural ability.

And as you pointed out; allot of it is a cycle of just being lazy. So they have no excuse as far as I'm concerned. To give you a better prospective lets say we have another depression in the US; which is a serious possibility according to Allen Greenspan, and lets say we have no welfare, social security etc? Where will that laziness get them?

Its work or starve and most will turn to crime just to avoid actual work. Work is a means of survival if we can't use an adversion to work as an excuse/reason for not putting forth an effort. It only proves my put; you either meet a challenge head on and become better for it or die. When we examine welfare states or socialist nations (same thing really) we see that said system inspire laziness and stupidity in the masses. The same thing can be said of certain lower income families (the poor subculture) in modern society...

[jrly]

We are really off topic, but anyways.

So the mom that has five kids and has to work two jobs because her husband took shouldn't get any welfare we should just fuck you and we have to keep the status quo.

[Draven]

Originally Posted by jrly

We are really off topic, but anyways.

So the mom that has five kids and has to work two jobs because her husband took shouldn't get any welfare we should just fuck you and we have to keep the status quo.

By no means, if said husband took "off with a younger woman" he should still be required to take care of his children and as for said mother thats an example of situation where assistance would/should be given. Said "dead beat dad" should face ciminal charges. Now if said husband took "ill" of course assistance should be given.

But here is where the thing gets shady, to me as long as someone is contributing to society they deserve a chance to get something back from that contrabution. But in the case of women who get pregnant to avoid work; its pretty easy to see where they fit in at. Of course I think prostitution should be a legal occupation in the U.S. but onto the issue "pedophilia."

[Draven]

Originally Posted by paininvmuthafuckinass

The difference in power only comes into play if coercion and manipulation are involved. If you think that younger people can't participate or benefit from pleasurable sexual experiences then YOU are the one living in la-la land. Aside from the fact that a lot of kids CAN make responsible decisions, it shouldn't matter. The adult can make responsible decisions for both of them, and if the adult chooses to take advantage of the situation and abuse, "molest", coerce, force, manipulate, or hurt a child then the adult should be punished, but NONE of these things are inherent in sexual activity. Explain to me what's so "adult" about sex that younger people can't possibly understand? Enlighten me as to how an orgasm is a horrible, nasty thing unless you're a certain age. The little victim-mentality that we force on children when it comes to sex is what fucks them up, not the sexual activity itself.

Shove a cold one up ya, narrow minded pricks.

You actually do bring up a valid point; the victem mindset which is drilled into children at an early age does handicap them in sexual relations. But since many pedophiles target children (those below the biological stage of sexual maturity A.K.A. puberty such as five and six year olds) there is an issue in itself. What makes America so messed up is that other countries such Germany and Franch address sex education before the onset of puberty so that children are prepared to deal with making the right choices, here in the US sex is dirty thing we don't talk about but use to sell everything...

God damn right-wing pilgrims and their religious-right manility. lol

Teens & Sex in Europe: A Story of Rights, Respect & Responsibility

[RallyNoChaos]

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