Metaphysics

[bastian.1343]

I wondered how many of you around BS, who think of something otherworldly. If you have a view other than an actual deity, I'd like to hear a bit about your views on the metaphysical, besides "I believe there is something".
Of course you're welcome to describe your views if you do have a theistic metaphysical view. Lastly I'd like to hear descriptions from those without an idea of the metaphysical, which was my original concern.

[Draven]

Originally Posted by bastian.1343

I wondered how many of you around BS, who think of something otherworldly. If you have a view other than an actual deity, I'd like to hear a bit about your views on the metaphysical, besides "I believe there is something".
Of course you're welcome to describe your views if you do have a theistic metaphysical view. Lastly I'd like to hear descriptions from those without an idea of the metaphysical, which was my original concern.

I got really curious for a while when I was younger and dabled into the occult. I'm still not conclusive one way or the other. Have had experience but nothing which could not be explained scientifically.

[bastian.1343]

What conclusion did you draw from these experiences/the scientific explanation? I mean what's your big picture of things?

[Draven]

Its difficult to explain in any real detail, basically try it and see what you think...

[aliby]

A web of connectivity sprawling forth between beings, ideas, (whatever!) that comes at us from infinite degress. This manages to thrive and flow because existence and thought are all the playings out of circumstance: past, present, future combined.

[jrly]

I find evolution hard to believe in because... just how the world works and interacts and one tiny thing different and everything would be dead. But I also have a problem with the Abrahamic religions because that would mean that god is an asshole who says that he is infallible and that he loves all equally but he is a hypocrite, and I can't say for sure about eastern religions. If there is a god/s then I would have to think that he/she/it/they just created the universe and left.

[bastian.1343]

I'm currently drawn towards the ideas given by Norse Mythology: there are multiple gods and there is no such thing as omnipotence. Everyone can and will die but there is no such thing as absolutes. Not everything has a purpose but happens at the whims of fate. And most importantly, the gods aren't idealised, meaning there is no idea of chastity and no rules except what common sense we have.

[jrly]

I would be drawn to something like that or Greek or something with many human-like gods with emotions but I think that they would interfere a lot more, so that leads me away from them.

[bastian.1343]

The fact is, Norse gods are all dead. They are no more, and so they do not interfere. What's called Ragnarok, the apocalypse, is the coming of medieval christianity and Danes were falsely christened under the promise that Jesus could save Midgaard from Ragnarok. Obviously he couldn't...

[jrly]

Originally Posted by bastian.1343

The fact is, Norse gods are all dead. They are no more, and so they do not interfere. What's called Ragnarok, the apocalypse, is the coming of medieval christianity and Danes were falsely christened under the promise that Jesus could save Midgaard from Ragnarok. Obviously he couldn't...

I do like that. It's kinda like the Ancient Ones

[bastian.1343]

Well actually it hasn't quite been Ragnarok yet, although the real story is a bit more complex. The notion that Jesus is able to save the world from Ragnarok, however, is what "erased" this religion for literally a thousand years.
Naturally there is debate as to whether or not the gods are dead. I choose to believe that they still exist and due to the Nordic perception of planar existence it wouldn't be expected for them to interfere with human life.

[Draven]

Originally Posted by jrly

I would be drawn to something like that or Greek or something with many human-like gods with emotions but I think that they would interfere a lot more, so that leads me away from them.

You do realize that the greeks actually didn't worship all those gods. The priesthoods did, but the commoners were not allowed. So following that you'd still be restricted to worshipping one god Zeus unless you where part of the priesthoods of another religious sect.

Read Occult Theocressy...

[bastian.1343]

I suppose my A in classics is a fragile argument, but much like in Norse culture, Greek commoners held certain gods as "house guardians" by sacrifice of wine, cattle or similar. However, I fully agree that any "official" sacrifice was conducted by the priesthood or in Norse culture, "goden", meaning a shaman/chief...

[Draven]

Originally Posted by bastian.1343

I suppose my A in classics is a fragile argument, but much like in Norse culture, Greek commoners held certain gods as "house guardians" by sacrifice of wine, cattle or similar. However, I fully agree that any "official" sacrifice was conducted by the priesthood or in Norse culture, "goden", meaning a shaman/chief...

Thats true most house gods were ancestors. Thats where metaphysics gets scetchy. Because there is allot of stuff interconnected with it from several different sources.

[sacrednines]

Which definition of the metaphysical are we discussing? The possibility of an order of operation (or chaos) beyond the physical universe? - Or an unseen operating force (or chaos) within the physical universe and therefore a part of the physical universe? Now, I do not downright doubt either, but the latter seems more likely to me. "The Perennial Philosophy" by Aldous Huxley is an interpretation of the metaphysics described by so many different faith's own masters and gurus -- and would be the closest thing I would consider to be my "bible".

According to Huxley...
"The Perennial Philosophy is the metaphysic that recognizes a divine Reality substantial to the world of things and lives and minds; the psychology that finds in the soul something similar to, or even identical with, divine Reality; the ethic that places man's final end in the knowledge of the immanent and transcendent Ground of all being; the thing is immemorial and universal. Rudiments of the perennial philosophy may be found among the traditional lore of primitive peoples in every region of the world, and in its fully developed forms it has a place in every one of the higher religions."


As for deities... I think they're the great elaborations of archetypes and unexplained occurrences as imagined by a perceiver. I draw this conclusion from the numerous theosophetical similarities in many isolated or uncontaminated (as well as blended) religions (from most any era) that suggest a common and therefore indicatively human inclination for the need of gods with similar characteristics. The perceiver creates his own gods according to his desires and the stimuli of his environment, either social or intuitive. But because the human condition is near universal (for all humans at least) these archetypes are embellished in very comparable yet wonderfully unique forms of worship.

However, because imagination is so very powerful, these gods are, in a sense, "omnipotent" each in their own time. In so much as, they do indeed rule the minds and actions of their followers (and the influences of their followers) despite not existing in an objective sense. Furthermore, man-made-gods can play a positive role as well as a negative. Offering people comfort (some degree of subjective understanding of the environment), creating beneficial ideologies, marshalling valor or reverence or respect in appropriate situations, and in many cases establishing an order of good health practice and/or unifying law... in this way, though I do not acknowledge a sentient/conscious pantheon or deity, I see the need for such and can respect the practice of belief as a valuable part of the human condition. (Pardon me if I'm describing something that is already inferred and am therefore practicing a redundancy.)

Although with such obvious influence over their followers -and the underclass of their followers-, who is to say that such elaborate gods are powerless, and so do not exist (in a slight stretch of the traditional definition)? I personally subscribe to a kind of modern Pantheistic Stoicism, which does not necessarily deny the existence of the metaphysical. My beliefs do not indicate a union with an eternal spirit in the Hindu or Abrahamic sense, but rather living simplisticly in accordance with nature by denying egotism and selfishness through virtue.

- Sorry for the lack of brevity.

[Draven]

Well now that I have more time, metaphysics has vastly different definitions and in some ways incorperate many different religions. So when you look at metaphysics in a religous context you end up with vastly different religious views.

[sacrednines]

I agree. There has been plenty talk of deities in the discussion, which is why I choose to address the subject. The metaphysics I recognize aren't necessarily religious (though many religious people might argue otherwise). Rather more like phenomena which currently have no scientific explanation, but plenty of evidence nonetheless; remote viewing, telekinesis, connective physics, etcetera...

[bastian.1343]

The mere fact that we mention deities does not mean it's the definition of the subject. I personally define metaphysics from the two greek-derived words "meta"; meaning "over" and "physics" (originally phusikē); meaning "of nature".
So as I see it, keeping in mind the ancient greek view on nature, I choose to define metaphysics as "beyond the scientifically explicable" in whichever form it may present itself.

[sacrednines]

Originally Posted by sacrednines

There has been plenty talk of deities in the discussion, which is why I choose to address the subject.

Originally Posted by bastian.1343

The mere fact that we mention deities does not mean it's the definition of the subject.

*edit*

Originally Posted by sacrednines

There has been plenty talk of deities in the discussion, which is why I choose to address the subject (of deities; not the thread entire).

sorry I wasn't clear.

Has anyone had a metaphysical experience they can describe and would like to share?
_