Eugenics: Selective Breeding

[Steve_TPF]

Originally Posted by Draven

Thats true, but point was never that it equals genius but that it might be a small price to pay for creative genius...

Possibly. But most manic-depressive people aren't genius's. They're just manic-depressive.

Originally Posted by Draven

Because as I keep pushing to; our physical environment alters our genetic structure. So selective breeding without "clean living" is only going to recreate the same genetic abnormalities. So while yes I do see eugenics as a method of improvement but also as unnecessary/unrealistic in large scales. I think eugenics might be a method of self-improvement for individuals but not for a whole group of people.

I never denied the effects of environment. But if your genes pre-dispose you to a given medical/mental disorder then you start with a disadvantage. The environment will not fix bad genes! Or Down's syndrome. So eugenics does have something to offer, particularly to those with a family history of physical/mental illness.

It's highly unlikely that we will ever see an entire country that practices eugenics as a matter of course. But with IVF becoming more common, it is possible that there will be a greater focus on genetic selection.

[Draven]

Originally Posted by Steve_TPF

I never denied the effects of environment. But if your genes pre-dispose you to a given medical/mental disorder then you start with a disadvantage. The environment will not fix bad genes! Or Down's syndrome. So eugenics does have something to offer, particularly to those with a family history of physical/mental illness.

It's highly unlikely that we will ever see an entire country that practices eugenics as a matter of course. But with IVF becoming more common, it is possible that there will be a greater focus on genetic selection.

No but sometimes bad genes don't manifest until a factor in the environment sets it off, lets say you have a son/duaghter and he/she doesn't have you or its mothers bad eye sight. In fact your kid has perfect 20/20 vision. But some environmental factor causes your childs bad eye sight to manifest as he/she reaches adulthood. Was the environment or genes or both that played into the problem.

Also as I've said before a disadvantage is something to be overcome. Something to the point that its fatal is different, but allot of disadavntages are nothing more then inconvientences. Not all men are create equal and its something they have all had to deal with in one way or another since the first man/woman was came into existance.

[Steve_TPF]

Originally Posted by Draven

Also as I've said before a disadvantage is something to be overcome. Something to the point that its fatal is different, but allot of disadavntages are nothing more then inconvientences. Not all men are create equal and its something they have all had to deal with in one way or another since the first man/woman was came into existance.

If you believe that disadvantage is something to be overcome, then don't bother raising your kids - just abandon them. It did wonders for you apparently. Personally I would want to give my children all the advantages I could. Whether they make good use of them would be up to them.

[Draven]

Originally Posted by Steve_TPF

If you believe that disadvantage is something to be overcome, then don't bother raising your kids - just abandon them. It did wonders for you apparently. Personally I would want to give my children all the advantages I could. Whether they make good use of them would be up to them.

No abandoning my kids would be irresponsible, but you are missing the point. You give anyone too much of an advantage it fails to prepare them for a disadvantage. Too much advantage can be as much of a disadvantage as too little.

[CyberWar]

Hell, Adolph tried to implement eugenics, although his methods were met with great disapproval. However, had the secrets of DNA been known to Nazi scientists, perhaps all the violence could have been avoided.

Nazis allowed a fundamental error in their judgement - they believed it was merely their genetic legacy that made them superior. A master race, however, must continuously exercise to maintain their edge over the subhumans. Spartans knew this very well and took it in account in their eugenics programme - the mere fact that one was born a Spartan did not automatically make one superior to the helots, their slaves. One had to earn his place among the elite citizen infantry that lived in never-ending hardship and exercise, but dominated the Greek world for centuries.

Therefore, being a genetically-enchanced superhuman will certainly not mean being a lazy, stupid and arrogant fat bastard. The superhumans will have to maintain their edge, and it will not happen by just sitting back and letting their genes magically do the job - they will have to put all their sweat and brain into dominating over others, and that in turn means they will contribute more to mankind than common mortals.

[Steve_TPF]

Originally Posted by Draven

Too much advantage can be as much of a disadvantage as too little.

You consider good health to be "too much advantage?' I'm glad you weren't my father.

Besides, as CyberWar pointed out, they would still have to work for what they wanted. Being healthy is hardly having a silver spoon in one's mouth.

[Draven]

Originally Posted by Steve_TPF

You consider good health to be "too much advantage?' I'm glad you weren't my father.

Besides, as CyberWar pointed out, they would still have to work for what they wanted. Being healthy is hardly having a silver spoon in one's mouth.

Being healthy is as much a choice as it is nature. Being born with a healthly immune system is one thing, but if you don't allow a childs do get sick their immune system doesn't get stronger and they don't get the healthy immune system of someone who was sick as a child. We already addressed that fact earlier, remember?

[CyberWar]

A solution to this would be enchancing the immune system to superhuman levels and then gradually exposing the young to various biohazards of increasing virulence. Also, intense exercise and Spartan simplicity of lifestyle from early age will naturally bolster the artificially enchanced defenses.

Other enchancements like increased reaction speeds, greater bone and muscle density, sharper vision and blood thickness can be provided genetically, but only regular exercise will develop these genetic advantages.

Ever thought why some guys can build their muscle significantly in a matter of months, while others hit the irons for years without any externally-visible result? It is all genetics.

[Steve_TPF]

Originally Posted by Draven

Being born with a healthly immune system is one thing, but if you don't allow a childs do get sick their immune system doesn't get stronger and they don't get the healthy immune system of someone who was sick as a child. We already addressed that fact earlier, remember?

I didn't say that they would never get sick. Just that they wouldn't suffer from chronic, debilitating conditions.