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Existentialism, Nihilism and Meaning |
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10-01-2008, 04:56 AM
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Existentialism, Nihilism and Meaning
In the end, we're all going to die. In reality, there's no after life. You may claim the latter statement is my opinion. I can ask you what proof you have that there is an after life and you can ask me what proof I have that there isn't. But the truth of the matter remains that the concept of God and the after life is made by man and is there to sooth our fear of the only thing guaranteed in life: death.
Every major civilization for as long as mankind has had the ability to keep records has had their own philosophy on how man was created and what happens to man when we die. To claim there is a God and that he will pass final judgment on our souls as we pass into an eternal afterlife of perfect bliss or fiery hell is absurd. Personally, I am angered that I was raised to believe such a feat could exist. Why can't children be told that when you die you are re-absorbed back into the earth. That is what happens with all living things. Trees and plants die and rot and become compost to fuel other living organisms. The same is true for animals. Humans are buried in the ground where they rot like the dead tree or cremated which is just a sped-up rotting process. But society feels the need to tell children that when they die, God will judge everything they have done in life, forcing the children to follow the social norms out of fear of immortal punishments.
There is no God. There is no afterlife. There is only the now. You live as you live and die when you die. Might as well make yourself happy. If teaching children makes you happy then teach. If robbing banks makes you happy then rob. If killing makes you happy then kill. Once you are no longer happy with life then die. Kill yourself. Nothing you do in life really matters. No matter what you do you are going to die, just like every other living organism.
Last edited by headcase; 10-02-2008 at 12:18 PM.
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10-01-2008, 05:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RallyNoChaos
Every major civilization for as long as mankind has had the ability to keep records has had their own philosophy on how man was created and what happens to man when we die.
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Aren't atheism, science, and Darwinism just the next extensions of this?
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"It's only in drugs or death that we experience anything new and death is just too controlling." -Chuck Palahniuk
"The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence." -Gin Rummy
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10-01-2008, 05:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RallyNoChaos
Once you are no longer happy with life then die. Kill yourself. Nothing you do in life really matters.
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Sound like another case of teen suacide.....
Death is final, for all you know happieness as around the next bend, but if you are dead then you will never discover this hapieness exists. But in the end its your choice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RallyNoChaos
Personally, I am angered that I was raised to believe such a feat could exist. Why can't children be told that when you die you are re-absorbed back into the earth.
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Well it does keep our children rather well behaved, just like the concept of santa clause.
The concept of an afterlife also serves to give curage and hope to those who are on their death bed, 'comfermation' that thier 'spirit' isnt about to be removed from existance.
Other people just feel the need to belong to somthing bigger and greater than themselves, but parents oppressing their views in terms of religion is wrong.
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10-01-2008, 05:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrly
Aren't atheism, science, and Darwinism just the next extensions of this?
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Good point.
The fact is that nobody truly knows what happens to your mind when you die. I do agree in the topic starters statements and I personally hate the people asking questions like "Whats the meaning of life?".
IMO THERE IS NO MEANING WITH LIFE!
Personally I wish (I don't believe) that there will be invented a machine that could possibly grant immortality before I die.
Gah that sounds wasted ...
Every man lives, every man dies. |
10-01-2008, 09:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wicked-Panda
IMO THERE IS NO MEANING WITH LIFE!
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I must dissagree, the biological meaning/purpose of life, for all organisims, is to repoduce.
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10-01-2008, 09:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by master lurtz
Sound like another case of teen suacide.....
Death is final, for all you know happieness as around the next bend, but if you are dead then you will never discover this hapieness exists. But in the end its your choice.
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I was thinking about if you liked to kill people (or some other illegal act) that could land you life in prison. Instead of saying once you're no longer happy you should kill yourself, I should have said once you are no longer capable of being happy you should kill yourself. |
10-01-2008, 09:47 PM
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If there is no afterlife then you should kill yourself now. There would be no purpose to life and you are bound to unhappy at least once in your meaningless life. After all, nothing will ever matter than will it?
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10-01-2008, 09:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RallyNoChaos
I was thinking about if you liked to kill people (or some other illegal act) that could land you life in prison. Instead of saying once you're no longer happy you should kill yourself, I should have said once you are no longer capable of being happy you should kill yourself.
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Ok, well thats why they take away belts, shoelaces, drawstrings, etc in prison.
But some people serving life terms in prison still find 'happyness' in prison gangs etc, assuming they are not in solartry confeinment, that would bad, also in a state of peralisis/braindead etc. would be fair enough to commit suicaide
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10-01-2008, 10:06 PM
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Um... if there is no afterlife wouldn't that be an incentive to not kill yourself, because you would know that it is pointless because there is nothing after. But I also understand thinking that your existence is futile and if there is no meaning then why bother living.
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"It's only in drugs or death that we experience anything new and death is just too controlling." -Chuck Palahniuk
"The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence." -Gin Rummy
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10-01-2008, 10:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RallyNoChaos
...absurd...
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Yes, absurd. The entire reason why so many people turn to nihilism such as this notion is because the truth of existence exists yet is not for people to understand. This answers both the question of why people believe in god and why some don't. Many people eventually realize that there is in fact higher meaning and take that as proof of a god. Others look at the world and perceive a void without meaning, which is essentially two sides of the same conclusion: there is meaning to life but humans can never grasp this meaning. Therefore I find it highly odd that people need to mark this definition onto the world? If nothing ever mattered or will matter, why post this? Why tell us if your life holds no meaning? Why? Everything has meaning but not all things have value.
On this note, I'd make the random observation that there is a lot of nihilists around this forum.
Absurdism - look at this, discard it as a bogus excuse, then rethink that judgment in a few decades
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10-01-2008, 11:06 PM
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I find it odd that so many people claim the intelligence to embrace nihilism but lack the intelligence to distinguish it from despair and hopelessness. Personally, I find nihilistic enlightenment to be quite euphoric and liberating.
A crucial difference between nihilism and existentialism is the application of "meaning". Nihilism posits that the universe is ultimately meaningless; nothing has meaning. Existentialism suggests that an individual creates their own meaning. I don't deny the possibility of bliss in my life (I'm quite enjoying my life), but that bliss doesn't mean anything. It has no higher value.*
* that is, beyond the value of providing me (my existence) with that same bliss. Whether you bestow that with the lofty title of "meaning" would be what distinguishes you as a nihilist or an existentialist, insofar as this argument is concerned.
Last edited by headcase; 10-01-2008 at 11:21 PM.
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10-02-2008, 12:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by headcase
I find it odd that so many people claim the intelligence to embrace nihilism but lack the intelligence to distinguish it from despair and hopelessness. Personally, I find nihilistic enlightenment to be quite euphoric and liberating.
A crucial difference between nihilism and existentialism is the application of "meaning". Nihilism posits that the universe is ultimately meaningless; nothing has meaning. Existentialism suggests that an individual creates their own meaning. I don't deny the possibility of bliss in my life (I'm quite enjoying my life), but that bliss doesn't mean anything. It has no higher value.*
* that is, beyond the value of providing me (my existence) with that same bliss. Whether you bestow that with the lofty title of "meaning" would be what distinguishes you as a nihilist or an existentialist, insofar as this argument is concerned.
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I'd have to agree.
My therapist says being a nihilist is depowering, where I'd have to say the exact opposite.
Being a nihilist is quite empowering, it allows you to do anything because no objective meaning exists.
Nothing exists= nothing matters. So have fun.
Being a nihilist can though have people feel empty and lonely.
But it's all up to the person to make themself happy.
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10-02-2008, 01:23 AM
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I dont beleive in any gods or higer powers as it were,
I try to live my life by one simple statment;
"I do not have to justify the way i live my life"
And i know this to be true, i know that i have the knowlage and the skill to become "just another missing person"
and lets face it what law enforcment agency would put out a country wide search for a nobody like me?
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I thort what id do was, id become one of those deaf-mutes...or should i?
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10-02-2008, 04:54 AM
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id advise all of you to look into the occult before you say there is no greater power...
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10-02-2008, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen
id advise all of you to look into the occult before you say there is no greater power...
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I agree to some extent... You don't need to even be able to read or research the occult in any way to know the feeling of the universe pulling strings. A lot of people, however, find it hard to accept that there is meaning beyond the understanding of human beings. This - as I see it - stems from the ever-present, deeply subconscious belief that humans are the center of the universe, which makes people pose the rather infantile question: "If there is meaning, why don't we know it?"
This is how I perceive both atheism and nihilism...
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10-02-2008, 12:13 PM
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But "meaning" is an inherently human concept. To suggest the possibility of a human concept existing independant of humanity is a circular argument, surely?
(I'm changing the title of this because at no point were we really discussing death (which wouldn't have lead anywhere interesting) and the OP was rubbish anyway and just happened to fluke upon an worthwhile discussion of philosophy so splitting it would be pointless).
Last edited by headcase; 10-02-2008 at 12:18 PM.
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10-02-2008, 01:04 PM
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I have a question that I would like someone to help me with that I can't quite get, ok here it is: I understand existenialism, and headcase defined it pretty well, but one of my teachers went to Loyala University, which is a Catholic school, and one of the teachers there, they are all priests, was an existentialist, now that just doesn't compute with my thinking of existentialism. Is anyone here religious but also an existentialist, basically what I am trying to ask can anyone attempt to explain how the professor might of reconciliated his beliefs as an existentialist and a priest?
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10-02-2008, 02:43 PM
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I am not telling people to stop searching for meaning... Quite the contrary. I'm just saying that there's no point in discarding meaning altogether or to accept a universalized imagegiven by religion. The search is the meaning in and of itself. We won't, however, find it, since there is no ultimate solution to anything.
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10-02-2008, 04:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bastian.1343
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