Depleted Uranium rounds

[Older than #s]

While NATO can use either tungsten steel or depleted uranium munitions in Apache Helicopters and A10 Warthog aircraft, the ballast used in cruise missiles is composed of DU. As with DU munitions, this ballast can aerosolize on impact. Immediate health risks associated with exposure to depleted uranium include kidney and respiratory problems. Long-term health risks include lung and bone cancer. The environmental consequences of DU weapons residue will be felt for thousands of years as its decay products continually transform into other hazardous radioactive substances in the uranium decay chain.In the first partial Pentagon disclosure of the amount of DU used in Iraq, a US Central Command spokesman told the Monitor that A-10 Warthog aircraft - the same planes that shot at the Iraqi planning ministry - fired 300,000 bullets. The normal combat mix for these 30-mm rounds is five DU bullets to 1 - a mix that would have left about 75 tons of DU in Iraq.

[HomietheClown]

isn't using a radocative weapon illegal i think?? some sort of law or genevea convention for not using radioactive weapons??

how could the us rationalize using DU weapons in iraq anyway?? obviiusly its used to pollute the enviroment and peoples health.....

anyway thanks for the post was a good one. :!:

[Older than #s]

Both the US and Great Britain use these rounds. I wonder what kind of illnesses we can expect to see over the next thousand years(not that I am assuming that we will be here for that long).

[Steve_TPF]

Originally Posted by HomietheClown

how could the us rationalize using DU weapons in iraq anyway?? obviiusly its used to pollute the enviroment and peoples health.....

Actually no. DU is used because of its armour piercing properties.
I agree though, that it's a health hazard, and will most likely cause long-term
problems for Iraqi citizens.

[Jago]

DU rounds aren't radioactive per sae. Like steve said, used for their armour piercing properties. I believe it's because it is heavier/denser than most metals (correct me if im wrong).
The DU dust left behind and general traces of DU will cause health problems

[Steve_TPF]

Yes, it is more dense. Depleted however, is a relative term. It is still radioactive, just less so than it was before it went into a reactor.

Is it possible that a side-benefit of DU rounds is that it gets rid of nuclear waste? I wouldn't be at all surprised.

[Older than #s]

This is an old article. Very interesting especially towards the end though.

http://www.rense.com/health3/gh.htm

[Dav_Daddy]

In truth they are probably better for the environment and safer than lead. DU in the water table is immensely preferable to lead in the water...

Lots of things are radio active to a certain extent, on the high end are certain tele-photo (i believe) camera lenses, radio active enough to trigger the detector at the airport should you have one in your luggage, smoke detectors, cops radar guns, on the low end are there is drying cement, and most modern cell phones (while in use) there is a bunch of other stuff that escapes me at the moment. None of it is dangerous per se, but I wouldn't advise the gents out there to go running around with a smoke detector or tele-photo lens in your front pocket for an extended period of time. (months)

[Steve_TPF]

Originally Posted by Dav_Daddy

In truth they are probably better for the environment and safer than lead. DU in the water table is immensely preferable to lead in the water...

Do you have a source for this?

Originally Posted by Dav_Daddy

Lots of things are radio active to a certain extent, on the high end are certain tele-photo (i believe) camera lenses, radio active enough to trigger the detector at the airport should you have one in your luggage, smoke detectors, cops radar guns, on the low end are there is drying cement, and most modern cell phones (while in use) there is a bunch of other stuff that escapes me at the moment. None of it is dangerous per se, but I wouldn't advise the gents out there to go running around with a smoke detector or tele-photo lens in your front pocket for an extended period of time. (months)

Yes, some common items do have tiny amounts of radioactive elements in them. They usually come with warnings for that reason. You are not supposed to inhale or swallow them.
The problem with DU is it's Pyrophic properties, which leave minute particles in the air, that are easily inhaled. Once inside the body its residual radiation is far more dangerous, as mentioned in the above article.
DU should certainly be studied more closely, before it becomes the next Agent Orange. If it hasn't already...

[Dav_Daddy]

Here is a few sources for the dangers that lead ammunition poses:

hxxp://www.rangeinfo.org/resource_library/resLibDoc.cfm?filename=facility_mngmnt/environment/lead_ammunition.htm&CAT=Facility%20Management

and,

hxxp://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1606660,00.html

here is one directly on point,

hxxp://www.epa.gov/superfund/sites/npl/nar390.htm

hxxp://www.scorecard.org/env-releases/land/site.tcl?epa_id=AL6210020008

Mind you I don't necessarily buy into all this crap but the argument can be made.

[Steve_TPF]

Thanks for posting sources, but try using url's next time.
The articles you cite do mention that lead is harmful if ingested by animals or introduced to the water supply. Fair enough. I don't see how DU would be any less dangerous though. Lead poisons the body, yes, radiation destroys it. Additionally, as mentioned DU spreads very fine dust on impact, making it far easier to ingest or inhale. I don't believe that anyone has accidentaly "inhaled" a shotgun pellet that happened to be lying around.

[Dav_Daddy]

Lead is a "heavy metal" once you get an amount of it in your body it is there for life. While DU is more dense thus more heavy, it is not a "heavy metal" (I think only base metals are designated "heavy metals?"

I don't have a lot of time to explain so here is the readers digest version from several sources on the net:

". Enriched uranium typically has a uranium-235 concentration of between 3 and 5%.[46] The process produces huge quantities of uranium that is depleted of uranium-235 and with a correspondingly increased fraction of uranium-238, called depleted uranium or 'DU'. To be considered 'depleted', the uranium-235 isotope concentration has to have been decreased to significantly less than its natural concentration."

"Exposure
A person can be exposed to uranium (or its radioactive daughters such as radon) by inhaling dust in air or by ingesting contaminated water and food. The amount of uranium in air is usually very small; however, people who work in factories that process phosphate fertilizers, live near government facilities that made or tested nuclear weapons, live or work near a modern battlefield where depleted uranium weapons have been used, or live or work near a coal-fired power plant, facilities that mine or process uranium ore, or enrich uranium for reactor fuel, may have increased exposure to uranium.[47][48] Houses or structures that are over uranium deposits (either natural or man-made slag deposits) may have an increased incidence of exposure to radon gas.

Almost all uranium that is ingested is excreted during digestion, but up to 5% is absorbed by the body when the soluble uranyl ion is ingested while only 0.5% is absorbed when insoluble forms of uranium, such as its oxide, are ingested.[10] However, soluble uranium compounds tend to quickly pass through the body whereas insoluble uranium compounds, especially when ingested via dust into the lungs, pose a more serious exposure hazard. After entering the bloodstream, the absorbed uranium tends to bioaccumulate and stay for many years in bone tissue because of uranium's affinity for phosphates.[10] Uranium does not absorb through the skin, and alpha particles released by uranium cannot penetrate the skin.


[edit] Effects
The greatest health risk from large intakes of uranium is toxic damage to the kidneys, because, in addition to being weakly radioactive, uranium is a toxic metal.[49][50][10] Uranium is a reproductive toxicant.[51] Radiological effects are generally local because this is the nature of alpha radiation, the primary form from U-238 decay. No human cancer has been seen as a result of exposure to natural or depleted uranium,[52] but exposure to some of its decay products, especially radon, does pose a significant health threat.[7] Exposure to strontium-90, iodine-131, and other fission products is unrelated to uranium exposure, but may result from medical procedures or exposure to spent reactor fuel or fallout from nuclear weapons.[53] Although accidental inhalation exposure to a high concentration of uranium hexafluoride has resulted in human fatalities, those deaths were not associated with uranium itself.[54] Finely-divided uranium metal presents a fire hazard because uranium is pyrophoric, so small grains will ignite spontaneously in air at room temperature.[3]

I can explain in simpler terms when time permits. Basically the whole issue is more with the irrational fear people seem to have about anything radio active..

[Random]

Hooray, heavy metals. Here we go...

Originally Posted by John H. Duffus in 'Chemistry International'

The term "heavy metal" has never been defined by any authoritative body such as IUPAC. Over the 60 years or so in which it has been used in chemistry, it has been given such a wide range of meanings by different authors that it is effectively meaningless. (source)

The above article basically states that I can point to my now empty bottle of water and call it a heavy metal. This page lists all the definitions of "heavy metal" that the author of that article could find.

So, the argument about "heavy metals" being dangerous is bullshit. Elements and compounds are dangerous, but there is no grouping as such except for the fact that they are all dangerous in their own ways.

Reading through this thread, I'm not even sure where the discussion of heavy metals started. With this in mind, I figured that I'd look specifically at DU and not "heavy metals".

This fact sheet from the World Health Organisation talks a lot about what DU is, what its civilian and military uses are (did you know that DU is used for counterweights on civilian aircraft?), exposure and absorption information, et cetera.

To summarise that fact sheet, yes, DU is dangerous to be exposed to (and yes, it is mildly radioactive - but then, so is your wristwatch).

[Steve_TPF]

Originally Posted by Random

Reading through this thread, I'm not even sure where the discussion of heavy metals started. With this in mind, I figured that I'd look specifically at DU and not "heavy metals".

Then heavy metals discussion came in after Dav_Daddy's assertion that lead in the water was more dangerous than DU. I'm still not sure if he is correct. I agree that lead is a dangerous substance that accumulated in the body, but so does DU. About 10% of ingested lead is retained by the body, compared with the 5% for DU. Absorbtion rates for both are far higher when inhaled. Both have the potential to kill over time.

Yes, your wristwatch may have a radioactive element, but it is unlikely that you will inhale or swallow it. The DU under discussion is being thrown around the coutryside.

[Jago]

On the lead vs DU argument.
From memory, lead in the system attacks the bone marrow. Radioactive shit breaks down individual cells, not sure if DU would do the same. Take your pick though
I work in a high lead environment too, airbourne particles/really fine powders. I'm less at risk than some others at work i.e mixers(but still at a high risk compared to normal). The mixers get tested every once in a while (i think once every few months or something, or once a month) for their lead levels. A guy i work with returned high lead levels in his test and was put out of the mixing area for 6 weeks, and then able to return to it. So I'm assuming (after all that) that lead levels will drop in the system once exposure is ceased, not remain in the body.

[Steve_TPF]

Yes, it will pass through the system eventually. The process is slow however, so continued exposure will maintain the level in the system. As to which is more dangerous in the body, gram-for-gram, I think we need more info.