Homemade Fist Weapons?

[Woad]

I wouldnt beat anyone down with weapons, if you get charges pressed you will have hell to pay.

Learn to fight and be ready to fight at all times xD

[french tickler]

Thank God that I am allowed weapons where I live. You should always learn how to fight though. I also think that if the attacker is unarmed then you should fight with your fists too.

[Steve_TPF]

And if that doesn't work, bore him to death by double-posting.

From a legal standpoint french tickler is correct. Using a weapon against an unarmed opponant is usually considered to be excessive force, unless you can show that there was a high level of threat, eg. he was twice your size or had friends. If he is dumb enough to say something like "I'm a karate blackbelt!" that would justify the use of a weapon, since a blackbelt is capable of inflicting serious injury of death. Likewise if he makes a verbal threat such as "I'm going to fucking kill you!" then you can claim you were in fear of your life.

If you can't carry a weapon then invest in some steel-capped shoes.

[SupportAnarchy]

put a rock, inside a sock. And use it to wack people

hahaha

also, get a guitar strin. And roll up both sides.. you can slice someone's head off like that.


Dont ask me how i know these things.

[i have the speed]

Originally Posted by SupportAnarchy

also, get a guitar strin. And roll up both sides.. you can slice someone's head off like that.

no.

they would die of strangulation much before you sliced their head off (which i have doubts of possibility anyway).

[A Toxicated Mind]

I think, he might be thinking of Piano Wire. But, that would probably do the same thing.(Ie. Strangle them before they're head comes off.)

[what is isnt]

Originally Posted by headcase

An aggressive creature that lives in a caravan and likes to fight.

I do not know if that was a joke or not, but you know a pikey is actualy a gypsy

[jrly]

Originally Posted by i have the speed

no.

they would die of strangulation much before you sliced their head off (which i have doubts of possibility anyway).

If the wire/string is strong and thin enough, then it can be used to garrote someone. Their head won't come off, but their will be blood and they will die.

[Thelasttrueone]

well you could get the head off eventually . . . but they would probably die first.

[shetlan]

Originally Posted by Steve_TPF

From a legal standpoint french tickler is correct. Using a weapon against an unarmed opponant is usually considered to be excessive force, unless you can show that there was a high level of threat, eg. he was twice your size or had friends. If he is dumb enough to say something like "I'm a karate blackbelt!" that would justify the use of a weapon, since a blackbelt is capable of inflicting serious injury of death. Likewise if he makes a verbal threat such as "I'm going to fucking kill you!" then you can claim you were in fear of your life.

In the US you have the right to defend yourself with deadly force if you "perceive an immanent threat to your life". In other words, you can kill anyone so long as you can convince a jury that you thought they where trying to hurt you - whether or not they actually where doesn't matter.

[Steve_TPF]

Laws vary from country to county, that's why I said "generally". In Aust you have to demonstrate a threat to your life to justify the use of lethal force. But using a weapon against someone who is unarmed would almost certainly get you charged.

Basically the same, but I'm sure you would have to prove your case.

Additionally, in Aust it's illegal to carry any item for the purpose of self defence. Doesn't matter if it's an everyday item that's otherwise legal.

[shetlan]

Originally Posted by Steve_TPF

Laws vary from country to county, that's why I said "generally".

I know - that's why I posted the US's.

Originally Posted by Steve_TPF

In Aust you have to demonstrate a threat to your life to justify the use of lethal force. But using a weapon against someone who is unarmed would almost certainly get you charged.

Australia has a better system then.
The difference is the US' use of the phrase "perceived threat" - meaning that the threat doesn't need to be real, it just needs to be real to you.

Originally Posted by Steve_TPF

Basically the same, but I'm sure you would have to prove your case.

You have to be able to explain why you felt like you where in danger, but you don't need to demonstrate actual danger.

[bloodlusta]

Hunting knife (folding better). You are legally able to justify carrying a hunting knife because you can claim you were carrying with intent to use for a purpose other than self defense.

Legally I can carry a Ka bar Warthog because my job requires me to carry a knife and therefore I am not carrying it with intent to use for self defense (and as army personal I am techiuqly on duty 24 hours a day). This would also apply to jobs like farming or working a place where you would use a knife (freezing works ect).

No matter what happens the cops are required to press charges if there is an incedent where an object has been used as a weapon, however the jugde will usally drop the charge if you were attacked first regardless of "exsessive force".

[3nKrYp7]

Originally Posted by instantnoodle

a fat marker or a glue stick. put your hand on a table, smash it with a pen/marker, and tell me it doesnt hurt. =P

AKA an improvised Kubotan.

Very effective and concealable weapon. I know plenty of cops use it as a last resort and before less-than-lethal weapons (tazers, beanbags etc.) were OK'd they were the primary back-up for less-than-lethal situations.

They can be used in two ways; 1) as a force-multiplier for 'hammer fist' shots (they focus the force in a small diameter of surface area as oppose to your entire fist) or 2) compliance weapons (you can get a good wrist lock on someone which will have them begging for mercy in no time).

You can buy purpose built kubotans, make your own (wooden dowel) or use improvised/inconspicuous ones. I carry a cheap titanium LED torch (I can shine it in an aggressors eyes before striking) but anything from a pen to keys will do.

Over here (Ireland) anything which is intentionally carried as a weapon is considered a weapon but imagine the prosecution trying to convince a jury you had a cheap bic on your with the sole purpose of attacking someone with it. Not going to happen, it just happened to be the first thing you grabbed when confronted by a vicious attacker, right?

[fightforcash]

if you make a fist with a lighter in your hand your punches are more powerful.

trust me i am half pikey lol

[bloodlusta]

Belts are also very good, if they have a heavt metal end. There only dissadvantage is sometimes they can be hard to get out in time

[Sypherian]

I'm not sure they are called this but a punch dagger is actually a really nice weapon it's more or less shaped like a corkscrew smaller though the handle is fitted behind the fingers to secure a good grip, it fits between to fingers and the blade is around 2,5 - 5 cm long, but i would'nt advice using it since it is a weapon meant for killing or at least meant for doing some permanent damage but its small light and can fit allmost anywhere a small pocket in a pair of jeans, by your shoe or sock barely noticeable

[shetlan]

Originally Posted by Sypherian

I'm not sure they are called this but a punch dagger is actually a really nice weapon it's more or less shaped like a corkscrew smaller though the handle is fitted behind the fingers to secure a good grip, it fits between to fingers and the blade is around 2,5 - 5 cm long, but i would'nt advice using it since it is a weapon meant for killing or at least meant for doing some permanent damage but its small light and can fit allmost anywhere a small pocket in a pair of jeans, by your shoe or sock barely noticeable

That's called a "push dagger".
There are some interesting designs out there, including some designed to look like belt buckles.

[Mike the Mighty]

KillLight - The flashlights carried by cops, something like a huge maglite or whatever. Easily explainable, and the bigger versions hit like a baseball bat. Remember to put batteries in it to add weight.

Biker Bandana - A padlock tied to a bandana. You can hang the bandana from your rear pant pockets. Easily pulled out, with a decent sized padlock you can cause serious injury. Just don't swing yourself in the face with it.

If you don't like these, you can use your imagination. All you need is an object of decent length, weight and durability/sharpness that won't catch attention and isn't in itself illegal to carry. Off the top of my head, a bike pump, a wine bottle, a wrench, most kinds of portable bicycle locks, a steeringwheel lock for the car, a keychain with loads of keys in it...

Personally, I'd go with the Bandana due to its small size and easy concealment, but from a judicial point of view, the killlight is probably preferable...

[shetlan]

Originally Posted by Mike the Mighty

KillLight - The flashlights carried by cops, something like a huge maglite or whatever. Easily explainable, and the bigger versions hit like a baseball bat. Remember to put batteries in it to add weight.

Put batteries in a flashlight? ? ? Wow, that's just crazy enough to work

Originally Posted by Mike the Mighty

Biker Bandana - A padlock tied to a bandana. You can hang the bandana from your rear pant pockets. Easily pulled out, with a decent sized padlock you can cause serious injury. Just don't swing yourself in the face with it.

A bandana with a padlock on the end isn't a viable weapon.
The range is minimal and the force of the blow wouldn't be enough to stop an attacker, let alone allow you to go on the offensive.

Originally Posted by Mike the Mighty

Off the top of my head, a bike pump,

Walking around with a bicycle pump isn't going to look out of place?

Originally Posted by Mike the Mighty

a wine bottle,

Again - that's not going to look out of place?

Originally Posted by Mike the Mighty

a wrench,

Assuming it fits on your pocket, which essentially makes it an improvised Kubotan - no more effective than a sharpie.

Originally Posted by Mike the Mighty

most kinds of portable bicycle locks,

That definitely won't look wierd if you carry it around

Originally Posted by Mike the Mighty

a steeringwheel lock for the car,

Neither will that

Originally Posted by Mike the Mighty

a keychain with loads of keys in it...

The chain is of more defensive value than the keys.

Originally Posted by Mike the Mighty

Personally, I'd go with the Bandana due to its small size and easy concealment, but from a judicial point of view, the killlight is probably preferable...

A large flashlight (god only knows why you keep calling it a "killlight"), has been considered on the of the most viable weapons in the law enforcement arsenal for the last fourty years or so.

[Mike the Mighty]

Aight Shet, looks like you spent enough time to make a reply worth the time. Oh, and thanks for the warm welcome :>

The Flashlight, aka. killlight, was named so by Sons of Silence. Same guys who 'invented' the biker bandana. They've never complained about either weapon's efficiency. If you believe the bandana isn't efficient, go to a store which sells padlocks and take a look at the sizes - you can get 'em so small theyre used to lock diaries, and so big you can't break 'em with most tools. Obviously, you'd go for one of the larger models. With a proper bandana, it'll be as lethal as a medieval flail. The force of the blow isn't lethal? The bandana would extend your arm by 50% - extended range yields more power, basic physics.
Add the weight from the padlock (you agree that a huge chuck of metal weighs more than a fist, right?), and the swinging power WILL be lethal. Take a look at some of the other posts.

On the batteries comment; having read through some of the posts in here, i figured i'd have to state the obvious.

For the rest of the items; as i stated, off the top of my head. You're saying it would look 'out of place'? What's that got to do with anything - would the cops take you to the station for carrying a bicycle lock? Or a wine bottle? Maybe if you live in North Korea..
I realize they're not convenient to carry, but depending on how scared this guy is of getting assaulted, it might be worth the inconvenience. And if you really get stopped - if one can't figure out an explanation for carrying a bicycle lock or a wine bottle, he would have a hard time reading this post..

Oh yeah, and on the keychain thing. I actually slapped someone on the chin with mine once. Yeah, he didn't hit the ground, but it cut him and allowed me to put in a kick and get the hell outta there. It's basically a free punch with a longer range. Your opponent cant afford NOT to block it.

Thing is; i see you guys giving advice such as push daggers etc.. Yeah, thats nice, but if you get searched you're in deep shit. You gotta ask yourself one thing; do you want to get busted for weapons possession?

The point of my "off the top of my head" listings was to show that most things you've got in your home CAN be used as weapons - not to tell the dude to walk around with an abus U-lock in his rear pant pocket. On a rainy day, bring an umbrella. Improvise.

I don't know what really motivated you to deconstruct my post like you did. Lets look at some other suggestions in this thread:
A pen? Yeah, it'll work if you can get to hammerfist your opponent. If you find yourself in a situation where you can land clean hammerfists, you've most likely already won the fight.
A palmed lighter? Same as above - it adds so little to the fight that, if you win the fight WITH the lighter, you would have won without it.
A piano wire? Yeah, why not, if you get searched you'll just say you're on your way to fix your friend's Steinway. Plus, the swinging power from a piano wire is LETHAL. I realize you're supposed to garrotte with it, but in a situation where you garrotte someone, it's not a fight, it's an assassination.
A rock in a sock? This will be considered a weapon if searched. Plus, it has shorter range and power than the bandana.

Right, have a nice day.

[shetlan]

Originally Posted by Mike the Mighty

Aight Shet, looks like you spent enough time to make a reply worth the time. Oh, and thanks for the warm welcome :>

Giving you a "warm welcome" isn't my job - or anyone else's for that matter.

Originally Posted by Mike the Mighty

The Flashlight, aka. killlight, was named so by Sons of Silence. Same guys who 'invented' the biker bandana. They've never complained about either weapon's efficiency.

Yup, I saw that episode of Gangland to - good job reciting it though.

The "biker bandana" is a modernized and incredibly weakened version of the bolas - one of mankind's earlier weapons. A more classic bolas is often wielded as a weapon by truckers (a chain with a lock at the end). It is far from being an invention of the SOS.

As for calling a flashlight a "killight", give me a break - it's a flashlight.

Originally Posted by Mike the Mighty

If you believe the bandana isn't efficient, go to a store which sells padlocks and take a look at the sizes - you can get 'em so small theyre used to lock diaries, and so big you can't break 'em with most tools.

Yes, mikey, I'm familiar with the idea of there being more than one size of lock

Originally Posted by Mike the Mighty

Obviously, you'd go for one of the larger models. With a proper bandana, it'll be as lethal as a medieval flail. The force of the blow isn't lethal? The bandana would extend your arm by 50% - extended range yields more power, basic physics.
Add the weight from the padlock (you agree that a huge chuck of metal weighs more than a fist, right?), and the swinging power WILL be lethal. Take a look at some of the other posts.

Well, since you apparently don't understand what makes flexible shaft weapons effective (like the bolas, flail, and this assinine contraption), I'll explain it to you slowly.

1: Look at the locks of any substancial size. Any lock large enough to do damage based on it's weight will also be far too large to conceal in a pocket effectively.

2: The fact that the flexible shaft (a bandana) is soft, fragile, and easy to snatch alone makes the "weapon" unreliable.

3: In an actual confrontation, all one would need to do to make the weapon useless is raise his arm and allow the bandana to wrap around his wrist.

4: Since the attacking end has a lock (easy to grip) and the user's end is bare (not as easy to grip), the user would easily be disarmed.

The only sensible way to use this device would be in a surprise strike from behind. Though, in such a case, you're better off just holdign the lock.

Originally Posted by Mike the Mighty

On the batteries comment; having read through some of the posts in here, i figured i'd have to state the obvious.

Congradulations, you've now added yourself to that same line of people.

Originally Posted by Mike the Mighty

For the rest of the items; as i stated, off the top of my head. You're saying it would look 'out of place'? What's that got to do with anything

First off, it's an elementary aspect of hidden and improvised weapons that they should appear innocuous and blend into their environment.
For a contradiction, your own post said that the item shouldn't "catch attention".

Originally Posted by Mike the Mighty

- would the cops take you to the station for carrying a bicycle lock? Or a wine bottle? Maybe if you live in North Korea..
I realize they're not convenient to carry, but depending on how scared this guy is of getting assaulted, it might be worth the inconvenience.

This group of weak-ass ridiculously useless weapons would be "worth the inconvenience"?

More importantly, nobody said that the police where going to stop you - but somebody carrying a bicycle lock with no bike to use it on is certainly suspicious as is someone carrying a bike pump (of all things ).

Originally Posted by Mike the Mighty

Oh yeah, and on the keychain thing. I actually slapped someone on the chin with mine once. Yeah, he didn't hit the ground, but it cut him and allowed me to put in a kick and get the hell outta there. It's basically a free punch with a longer range. Your opponent cant afford NOT to block it.

Yeah, that extra inch and a half is definitely going to save you

Originally Posted by Mike the Mighty

Thing is; i see you guys giving advice such as push daggers etc.. Yeah, thats nice, but if you get searched you're in deep shit. You gotta ask yourself one thing; do you want to get busted for weapons possession?

So your solution was a bike pump?

For one thing, you apparently don't know a heck of alot about weapons laws - since push daggers aren't illegal in all that many places. I know several cops and feds that wear push dagger belt buckles on a daily basis - as do I.

Originally Posted by Mike the Mighty

The point of my "off the top of my head" listings was to show that most things you've got in your home CAN be used as weapons - not to tell the dude to walk around with an abus U-lock in his rear pant pocket. On a rainy day, bring an umbrella. Improvise.

Great, so what you're saying is that none of those where suggestions having anything to do with the topic.

So. . . rather than making a fool of yourself with bad suggestions, you made a fool of yourself for no reason at all.

Originally Posted by Mike the Mighty

I don't know what really motivated you to deconstruct my post like you did.

The incredible fear that someone might actually listen to you.

Originally Posted by Mike the Mighty

Lets look at some other suggestions in this thread:
A pen? Yeah, it'll work if you can get to hammerfist your opponent. If you find yourself in a situation where you can land clean hammerfists, you've most likely already won the fight.

HA!
There went your credibility kid. A ballpoint pen is one of the world's most commonly used improvised weapons - and one of the most efficient.

Originally Posted by Mike the Mighty

A palmed lighter? Same as above - it adds so little to the fight that, if you win the fight WITH the lighter, you would have won without it.

Again, lighters are one of the most commonly used improvised weapons - you're REALLY showing how little you know about this subject.

Originally Posted by Mike the Mighty

A piano wire? Yeah, why not, if you get searched you'll just say you're on your way to fix your friend's Steinway. Plus, the swinging power from a piano wire is LETHAL.

Oh, I see the problem here - you think fights aren't suppose to end with a dead combatant. Well that explains why you're making all of these stupid claims, you've probably never been in a fight outside of a schoolyard.

Originally Posted by Mike the Mighty

A rock in a sock? This will be considered a weapon if searched. Plus, it has shorter range and power than the bandana.

A rock in a sock and a bandana with a lock on the end are virtually the same weapon - excluding the fact that the rock in a sock doesn't leave identifiable marks.

[Mike the Mighty]

Hi again Shet.
We could spend years going back and forth like this. I could tell you that a large padlock can fit in a pair of baggypants, and that attempting to wrap it around your arm to block it would, if failed, break or severely injure the arm. I could tell you that a keychain - i mean the long nylon ones you can hang around your neck, yeah - is longer than an inch.
I could tell you that trying to discredit me by saying i know nothing about fights has no value on an internet forum.
I could even make fun of you by claiming that you just saw an entire episode of gangland just to diss my post - you didn't know the name 'kill-light' in my previous post (only God did), and now, having read my answer, you do.

However, I'm here to make a constructive debate and give people my oppinions - for reference, check my other posts here. Judging from those of your posts I've read, we don't share that goal - i didn't see any suggestions on your part in this thread.

My suggestion is this; should you wish to continue a flamewar, lets keep this topic clean so it can serve the purpose it was made for - if you want to keep bashing a new forum member, send me a PM instead. Unfortunately, there's no forum glory in that.

Have a nice day.

Edit: Oh yeah, the pen. I retract my statement on that, sorry. I'm not native english speaker; in my native language a 'pen' has a large felt tip. The ballpoint pen would work i guess.

[Draven]

Ok going back to my old school street punk methods, you can make supper cheap and light knuckle dusters (non-brass brass knuckles) with wet paper towels, layered and formed to your knuckles. After the compressed and formed paper towels dray, make a band with masking tape & spay paint them black. Just throw some gloves (fingered or fingerless) over them and you're all good.

You can also cut your finger nails into points to add some damage when you target the eyes.

You can legally carry a roll of quaters or similar, and they add wieght to your fist and let you combine them with the knuckle duster concept.

[shetlan]

Originally Posted by Mike the Mighty

Hi again Shet.
We could spend years going back and forth like this. I could tell you that a large padlock can fit in a pair of baggypants, and that attempting to wrap it around your arm to block it would, if failed, break or severely injure the arm.

And you would be wrong - aside from betraying your ignorance of anything having to do with street fighting or CQC weapons.

Originally Posted by Mike the Mighty

I could tell you that a keychain - i mean the long nylon ones you can hang around your neck, yeah - is longer than an inch.

1: That's called a "lanyard".
2: It shares the exact same weaknesses that the lock on a bandana does, with the addition that it's lighter and far more useless.

Originally Posted by Mike the Mighty

I could tell you that trying to discredit me by saying i know nothing about fights has no value on an internet forum.

Your own statements discredit you Mike. Telling you that you're loosing credibility by saying stupid things is for your benefit - everyone else already knew.

Originally Posted by Mike the Mighty

I could even make fun of you by claiming that you just saw an entire episode of gangland just to diss my post - you didn't know the name 'kill-light' in my previous post (only God did), and now, having read my answer, you do.

I never claimed that nobody else called it by the same assinine knickname or that I hadn't heard it before - I said it was stupid that you where calling by an assinine knickname.

On a side note, what makes you think I watched the episode for the sake of making fun of you? You made yourself look stupid, I didn't need to watch gangland to be able to point that out.

None the less, thank you for admitting that you decided to call it a "killight" because you saw it on TV.

Originally Posted by Mike the Mighty

However, I'm here to make a constructive debate and give people my oppinions - for reference, check my other posts here. Judging from those of your posts I've read, we don't share that goal - i didn't see any suggestions on your part in this thread.

You're right, and there are several reasons that I made no suggestions:

1: I have no idea what items the posters have at their disposal.
2: I have no idea where the posters are going and can't deduce what weapons would meld well into their environment.
3: I have no idea what the posters look like and can't devise a weapon that would apply well to each personally.
4: This entire subject would easily be rectified by a google search.

Originally Posted by Mike the Mighty

My suggestion is this; should you wish to continue a flamewar, lets keep this topic clean so it can serve the purpose it was made for - if you want to keep bashing a new forum member, send me a PM instead. Unfortunately, there's no forum glory in that.

Have a nice day.

You'll find that posting idiotic BS in any one of our threads will lead to such ridicule Mikey - I was just the first one to get here.

Originally Posted by Mike the Mighty

Edit: Oh yeah, the pen. I retract my statement on that, sorry. I'm not native english speaker; in my native language a 'pen' has a large felt tip. The ballpoint pen would work i guess.

Give me a break kid. A pen is a pen everywhere.

A felt tip "marker" if capped would serve the purpose quite well - though a ball point is still preferred.

[kill1nu]

Although i agree with the don't carry a weapon posts, i still wanted to give you a decent one just in case.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~CD Knuckle Duster~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
WHAT YOU NEED

1 CD (a shit one or someone else's)

1bit of foam small pipe tubing (the stuf plumbers cover pipes with)

1 SHARP knife

Some super glue

LETS GET STARTED

1. First off get the CD and cut a rectangle around the hole using the knife. This rectangle must be big enough to fit your four knuckle fingers in (you know how to use a duster).

2. Now cut the foam tube down the center and cover the inside of the rectangle with it, glue it on. This is to protect your hand from getting fucked up.

3. You can if you want to use the knife to cut some mad spikes at the front of it to make some crazy shit.

4. Get in a fight.

5. Pull out the duster.

6. FUCK THEM UP!




That was taking from totse written by -=Jaz2G=-

[bloodlusta]

Persoanlly i never liked dusters because I don't feel that the advantage they give you is worth the risk of trying to get on on during a fight. I knife you can grab and flick and your set, a dusters you got to get out and then try and put on while the guy is rushing at you.

[shetlan]

Originally Posted by bloodlusta

Persoanlly i never liked dusters because I don't feel that the advantage they give you is worth the risk of trying to get on on during a fight. I knife you can grab and flick and your set, a dusters you got to get out and then try and put on while the guy is rushing at you.

The raised area of the duster (in your palm) is also going to decrease your grappling potential - which is key in close quarters.

[bloodlusta]

Good point, that hadn't crossed my mind. I don't usally grapple much but yeah that would be an issue. But then again so would a knife. Mind you with a knife you are more likely to check your opponet with your weaker hand hand while attacking with the knife in the other hand.

[Montezuma]

Originally Posted by bloodlusta

Persoanlly i never liked dusters because I don't feel that the advantage they give you is worth the risk of trying to get on on during a fight. I knife you can grab and flick and your set, a dusters you got to get out and then try and put on while the guy is rushing at you.

Keep it in your back pocket on your strong side, putting it on is as simple as reaching in the pocket if you have them in there right.

Originally Posted by shetlan

The raised area of the duster (in your palm) is also going to decrease your grappling potential - which is key in close quarters.

This is a good point though. Any weapon would interfere with grappling but you can't really adjust the grip on a knuckle duster to make it work. A lot of it depends on the size of it too.