easiest acquired gun????

[FerretBone]

Originally Posted by Misanthropy

You say a modified PM11 "may occasionally fire a round". lol, quite a change from "it won't work at all"

Yeah big change Jack.
One round firing occasionally by sheer dumb luck is what you call a functioning full auto firearm? BWHAAAAAAAA!
In this case, you wouldn’t even catch a case from the ATF for an unregistered machinegun. They would simply laugh at you like the rest of us are.

Originally Posted by Misanthropy

and your claims that modifying the hammer just won't do anything... It either works or it doesn't

I can tell you have very, very low standards for a functioning firearm.

I’m sorry, I meant it will not do anything productive. Like fire at all, much less fire in full auto. And if it does by chance fire once, once out of a thousand, It would be about the same chances of you getting laid, one out of a thousand. Like I said, that’s a very low standard.

Originally Posted by Misanthropy

& you don't need to weld shit just because the open bolt has a fixed pin, junior.

No shit sweetie, open bolts have a fixed firing pin. While you were busy playing with other men’s nuts sacks by your fireplace as stated by you earlier, I was the one explaining the difference between open bolts, and closed bolts weeks ago.

It appears that you still do not understand that your PM-11 has a CLOSED BOLT. That means it has a floating firing pin. So you have to weld that firing pin forward. Among other things.

Originally Posted by Misanthropy

It does, in fact, fire from battery just fine. The floating pin does not interfere with cycling or firing at all in my experience. So get bent.

I guess you have got me there sweetie. From your “experience”.

Originally Posted by Misanthropy

Props ninefingers. Yeah, I think I'll refer to the incredibly lame duo now as shetbone. I can speak to one or both with the same results as they PM each other whenever I pop up, so, what the fuck...

Will someone flush the fucking toilet already. Miss Anthropy has backed it up again. I doubt it will even flush now. But dam it someone at least try.

Wow, you took the name Sheltan and Ferretbone, then stuck them together. Your Absol- Freaking- Utely gifted. I mean, it’s almost like we walked right into that insult. You should patent your stupidity before someone else does.

Originally Posted by Misanthropy

Hey Nine: Are you by chance referring to the Serbu Super Shorty 12g? That's a pretty sweet unit & I was meaning to buy one at one time. I believe it does have a rifled barrel, classifying it as a "non gun" to circumvent certain restrictions on barrel length. Sweet machine.

Talk about taking a sizeable, greasy shit all over yourself Miss Anthropy. Your continuous, DeafCon 3, flow of diarrhea out of your mouth might be an entitlement on your dope websites, but here is called a violation. Outright false stories about moding a firearm is one thing, posting sheer stupidity about a SBS being classified a “Non gun” takes the urinal cake. You do now what a urinal cake is right. The little pink thing that reminds us of you as we piss. You have just officially won that. Don't be scared to PM me again. By all means, collect your award Miss antihropy, before I figure out how to punch you in the face over the internet.

Your claiming that a Super Shorty 12g is a non gun?

Holy Runny Donkey Shit Miss Anthropy. Someone get his guy a doctor.

It’s an AOW, not a “non gun‘. In no way will it ever be a "non gun". I don't care if it has a rifled barrel, smooth barrel, or has no barrel, it is not a "non gun".
And Nine, it’s not a 6 week wait, it’s at least 6 months right now. For an NFA transfer. Unless your incorporated. If you are incorporated is about a month or two shorter. We just had one that took over a year in TX. It was on a form 3. Form 4s are a little faster sometimes.

[Misanthropy]

Goddamn you like to talk & talk & talk & really say nothing at all. We've covered the open/closed bolt definitions & so on. With the way you keep repeating yourself, one would think you're still trying to figure it out.

In any case, you don't need to weld anything sugar tits. The floating pin doesn't come forward until the round is chambered. The bolt follows through in its cycle & drives the pin into the primer of the round after the bolt is fully seated. It works kiddo. Simple. Fucking. Logic. Or, just work up some cojones & try it. Then you can stop running your neck. I know you won't try it for the simple fact that you'll be the world's biggest fucking doofus when you find full auto function suddenly in your hand.

non gun/AOW: That's what I was intending to type but my mistake. I guess I'm 1 for 1 with you now.. Say, I'll just call it even with your disinfo about transmitter ranges.

[shetlan]

Well missanthropy since you're making it such a point to push this - show us the mod you claimed to have already done.

[Misanthropy]

Had I known 10 years ago or so that I'd be arguing the point on here w/ you fools I'd have taken a pic. lol.

All one needs to do is look at the mechanism to see how it works. It's about as easy as can be. Guess that's too much for most.

[FerretBone]

Originally Posted by Misanthropy

Had I known 10 years ago or so that I'd be arguing the point on here w/ you fools I'd have taken a pic. lol.

All one needs to do is look at the mechanism to see how it works. It's about as easy as can be. Guess that's too much for most.

And the reason why you have no proof or evidence.

You know those how to manuals you love so much. Tell me why isn't there one for a PM-11? There is one for almost any firearm that can be converted to fullauto without a complete strip down.
Except for the PM-11 you so easy moded. Why is that? I guess they forgot that model? BWHAA!!!!!

Originally Posted by Misanthropy

. We've covered the open/closed bolt definitions & so on.

No we did not cover shit. I however covered the open and closed bolts on Macs. In fact, I was the one who brought it up, and pointed out that your PM-11 was a closed bolt.
You haven’t proved dick. You are good at desperately posting links that most people can disprove without even clicking on them.

Originally Posted by Misanthropy

With the way you keep repeating yourself, one would think you're still trying to figure it out.

Yes, trying to figure out how you believe you converted a PM-11 closed bolt, with an open bolt SWD manual.

Originally Posted by Misanthropy

In any case, you don't need to weld anything sugar tits. The floating pin doesn't come forward until the round is chambered. The bolt follows through in its cycle & drives the pin into the primer of the round after the bolt is fully seated. It works kiddo. Simple.

Can you tell me why the pin only moves forward when the round is chambered on a PM-11? Tell us what keeps the firing pin back until the bolt is fully closed. You already fucked this up, I just think that it would be entertaining to hear you try to expound on this.

Because the firing pin does not come forward when the round is chambered like you stated . It needs a little help from something else to move forward.. The bolt does not drive shit, into dick on a PM-11. Get back to me once you have this all straightened out.

Originally Posted by Misanthropy

non gun/AOW: That's what I was intending to type but my mistake. I guess I'm 1 for 1 with you now.

Not that anyone is keeping track. But lets recap.

The score would be 1 to 5.

1.

“ Cobray (company, not logo) sells their M10 as a Cobray M10”

“Cobray ® Is the Registered Trademark, Wordmark and Trade Dress of DeMars Companies”
From the Cobray website. And on there website they clearly state that they do not manufacture firearms. Never have.
Cobray Company the Firearm Company that Made the 80's Roar



2. Full autos are not called “class three” they are NFA‘s? The ATF has an NFA branch, not a “class three branch”?
Go back a few posts
Online - Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms

3. M-10s, M-11s, or Mac type firearms are called MAC’s, regardless who manufactured them?
The end of page 3. Writer actually talked to Mr. Ingram. No rumors, no myths, no internet misinformation, simply a step by step stage, and evolution of the Mac by the men in this field during the Mac attack times.
Go back a few posts
New Page 2. Every firearms dealer in the US calls them Macs. Every person knowledgeable with firearms on this planet calls them Macs, except you.

4. The guild you posted weeks ago, and referred to in your last post sent you on a wild goose chase for a “semi auto Ingram“?
Go back a few posts
MEGAUPLOAD - The leading online storage and file delivery service

5. You did not successfully mod a PM-11 to full auto using the SWD manual posted and stated as such by you? Your a liar. .
Go back a few posts
MEGAUPLOAD - The leading online storage and file delivery service

Originally Posted by Misanthropy

Say, I'll just call it even with your disinfo about transmitter ranges.

I will give you one point for the transmitter bit simply because I don’t care. And I’m being nice. But…………………

You do remember me stating I don’t know dick about transmitters right? I was asking you how a $6000 radio the military uses only gets about a mile in the real world. “In the field“. And how yours, the “size of a pack of gum,” worth 10 bucks, gets “1 mile in range“.

I asked you how that was possible. And you failed miserably to answer my question. You then blamed solar winds, and volcanic eruptions as one of the many variables of why the military’s equipment does not work. But yours some how does.

I was asking you legitimate questions because I was skeptical to say the least.

Then you post a picture and link of a shitty radio as proof, that the military uses, and gets more than a mile of range off a handset. (A hand set that we do not use because of Comsec,) Then claimed that handset has a 5 mile range.

Funny thing was that you posted a link to a site, that dam near every comment on it, said “5 miles was a huge over statement” by folks who bought that two way radio. One guy said about “500 meters was what it actually transmits to.“

Yeah you really back me into a corner. BWHAAAAAAA!

[shetlan]

Originally Posted by Misanthropy

Had I known 10 years ago or so that I'd be arguing the point on here w/ you fools I'd have taken a pic. lol.

All one needs to do is look at the mechanism to see how it works. It's about as easy as can be. Guess that's too much for most.

Hmm, so first you can't show it to us because you're on "supervised release" - though you said you'd be happy to if you wheren't.

Now you can't because . . . wait why can't you again?

[Misanthropy]

Ahh, jebus.

When I go to the gun store I buy a "Cobray PM11" not a "mac" anything. Refer to it by its nickname all you like, it doesn't make it so...

Look, if you can explain to us how in the world a floating firing pin is supposed to interfere with the cycling of a round from battery as opposed to a fixed pin in the open bolt, please do so or else . It works, please explain in 5493293298485 words or less how it's NOT supposed to do so, eh?

K.I.S.S.

[shetlan]

You make a ridiculous claim that all on its own displays ignorance.

You then try to argue symantics to make yourself right about totally inconsequential aspects of the conversation (using many terms you apparently don't understand).

You then try to back-up your questionable source with faulty logic (it has pictures so it's right) to compete with the known credentials of your opponent.

When that failed, you attempted to bolster your own credibility by claiming expertise in fields that are not related to the subject in any way.

When that failed you demanded that Ferret perform the modifications himself, though you claim to have already done so.

You then refused the same challenge, but claim that you would do it if you wheren't under a supervised release.

Then you left for three weeks in the hopes that everyone would forget the stupid things you said.

That didn't work, so you made the claim that you aren't going to do the mod (and prove your arguments with actual evidence) because you don't have pictures of when you did it the last time (I think?).

Now you're flat out trying to change the subject - and for some reason you've taken to inserting assinine pictures in your posts.

Thank you, you have confirmed beyond a shadow of a doubt that you are full of grade A, 100%, USDA choice horse shit.

[FerretBone]

Originally Posted by Misanthropy

Ahh, jebus.

When I go to the gun store I buy a "Cobray PM11" not a "mac" anything. Refer to it by its nickname all you like, it doesn't make it so...

Look, if you can explain to us how in the world a floating firing pin is supposed to interfere with the cycling of a round from battery as opposed to a fixed pin in the open bolt,

You do not sound so confident anymore. I have noticed you have been very receptive to my technical instruction. Sounds to me like you are trying to lure me into walking you step by step and help you on a current or future mod. Not enlighten you on why your previous mod didn’t work, like I originally thought. Like I said before it is painfully Obvious that you haven’t even tried to do anything this stupid.


So I look at it like this, I’m not helping you, or walking you through shit. I’m discouraging others from trying any thing this stupid with a PM11. After all I am posting this on the internet.

If this has been to much for you to read then tough. It does take a lot longer when I have to dumb down the obvious for people like you.






Because the floating firing pin is spring loaded or “loose“.

Because as the bolt is moving forward, before the bolt strips a round out of the mag the hammer has already caught up with the bolt and struck it.

That means it has pushed the firing pin forward before the bolt has picked up a round from the mag.

The bolt is still moving forward, the hammer has lost all of its momentum

The bolt picks up a round with the firing pin pushed forward already.






NOW the firing pin will

1. Be pushed back into the bolt, and also pushing the hammer off the bolt slightly. When the bolt closes, and the round is chambered, there is not any momentum from the hammer, and little force on the pin to fire the primer.

2. Occasionally it fires the round out of battery. If your lucky




I can think of one important thing you would need to do to reduce the above. Wield the firing pin forward. Among other things.

[Misanthropy]

I'm not going on & on because it's not worthwhile & I'm mostly enjoying how it results in you both going on & on for me while you stick your noses up each others asses, PMing each other like little namby pamby tattletales, each time I reply, all in the quest against lil 'ol me..

Now, when these components are at rest and not expending their kinetic energy in the travel forward, yes, that's how they sit. Slamming forward, that pin is traveling forward in the mass of the bolt, slamming into the round with a bit of mass behind it from the hammer, regardless that it's riding the bolt.

It hit the primer. If you're saying that my firing pin spring is so herculean that it negates this, you'd just as easily see people altering the pin spring in addition to the hammer for full auto. Also, springs wear out with use. This alone is not reason enough to explain it away.

But by all means, keep ranting.

[ninefingers]

Originally Posted by FerretBone

Not his PM-11. His PM-11 has a floating firing pin (moving) in the bolt. An open bolt has a fixed firing pin.

Not necessarily. Thompson 1921,1927; 1928's ; BAR and Lewis; quite a few of the older open-bolt guns had a floating firing pin with an open bolt and some even a regular hammer. It makes selective fire/dual rate fire much easier, anyway. I even saw am open bolt semi auto .22; should have bought it. It most probably had a floating firing pin, (didn't look); although some fancy trigger disconnector would keep it from just slam firing. Most later sub guns; STEN; M-3 greasegun; my PPS-43; etc; have a fixed pin, as you say.

Also, "one round firing occasionally" "won't alert the ATF"? I'm not so sure....

A fella with an SKS "doubled" at an Arizona range a few years back. (SKS's; with the tapered firing and no return spring, sometimes do this. Also, an overly sensitive primer.) The d**ckhead range master called the cops on him. He went to Jail!

[CyberWar]

The easiest way to get a gun is build one yourself - with some basic machining tools and engineering skills you can build a simple and effective firearm. It will be nothing great, but it's still going to kill, which is the point.

Uzi SMG started off this way, and Chechen rebels still make an SMG called Borz.

---

Don't know about USA, but where I live, Makarov and TT pistols are the most common illicit firearms. In US, a .38 revolver or Colt M1911 would probably be the case, although it's probably just my thought.

For beefier firepower, a sawn-off shotgun is probably the easiest to procure.

[FerretBone]

Originally Posted by ninefingers

Not necessarily. Thompson 1921,1927; 1928's ; BAR and Lewis; quite a few of the older open-bolt guns had a floating firing pin with an open bolt and some even a regular hammer. It makes selective fire/dual rate fire much easier, anyway. I even saw am open bolt semi auto .22; should have bought it. It most probably had a floating firing pin, (didn't look); although some fancy trigger disconnector would keep it from just slam firing. Most later sub guns; STEN; M-3 greasegun; my PPS-43; etc; have a fixed pin, as you say.

Did you really think I was refuring to a Thompson? Or maybe even a Lewis? The last 3 or 4 months we have been talking about The Mac 10.

[ninefingers]

Originally Posted by FerretBone

Did you really think I was refuring to a Thompson? Or maybe even a Lewis? The last 3 or 4 months we have been talking about The Mac 10.

You said "an open bolt has a fixed firing pin." Taken out of context as it was it isn't completely true. I now get by inference, several posts previous to that, maybe you meant Mac-11. But; I've been off two months; not meanin' to start another fight. Friends?

[ARIehtpU]

I wouldn't say Aks and Uzis are simple to get a hold of.. but if you just look in your moneysaver or classified you can buy pistols underage if the guy doesn't ask for ID , which I had in my case but was never required to present. So I had a pistol under 21.

[hdragon40]

This is really unrelated, but can somebody lock this thread quick, and make a "easiest acquired gun????2?"

I often check in to watch ferretbone and misanthropy fight (though it seems like ferretbone's winning ), and read about the new, improved ways they can bash each other.

But, really, this thread is too long (kinda like the new 30 page or something alienware m11x thread on a techie site), and there was a 2 month lapse, with some guy quasi-reviving this thread. I mean that it's too long as in too little relevant info for the length.

C'mon guys, move on to something new that actually involve the topic, which is the easiest acquired gun, without having to dig through interesting, but unrelated info about modding submachineguns.

Maybe you guns could make a thread called "modding submachineguns?"

[bloodlusta]

No simple answer. Depends what country your in. In New Zealand its a SMLE Mk 2,3 or 4