-- Posted by Ankou on 7:27 am on Dec. 22, 2001 Hi everyone. I have a cap gun revolver which im about to convert into a real firearm. Now i wonder what kind of .22 ammo would be best to use with it? Its made out of some grayish looking metal. Its a mix of different metals i think. I dont know if it would explode in my hands when shot if i used Low velocity ammo (The short .22:s) Now i would be grateful if u people could answer this question. You could also tell me if you've converted a cap gun yourself and if it worked. :- -- Posted by balor on 4:13 pm on Dec. 22, 2001 I made one before.I cut the barrel off a blank firer derringer in front of the chamber.I had some 4130 steel pipe (5.5mm internal diameter) which I used as a barrel.I drilled the chamber to take the pipe.Is safe to use with low velocity/standard .22 lrs .I havent tried high/hyper velocity ammo though. I saw in some book about a kid in the US that had drilled out a blank firer with an ordinary drill.It supposedly shot accurately(for a smooth bore) and was safe to use.So it is possible!! (Edited by balor at 4:16 pm on Dec. 22, 2001) -- Posted by Ankou on 4:30 pm on Dec. 22, 2001 Thanks ill just play it safe and use Low velocity ammo at first. But perhaps ill buy a derringer and convert it too. It could be fun with a small gun. And once again thanks for the help. Oh. And by the way Merry christmas! -- Posted by The Great Milenko on 11:48 am on Dec. 25, 2001 Yeah another thing to do would be to test it like most ppl test zip guns, by tying to a tree or pole so it's sturdely strapped onto it and not pointing at anything of value and tie a peice of string to the trigger and step back a fair bit and pull the string, and if it's still in one peice it may be safe to use (i use the word "may" cause no homemade gun is ever 100% safe) -- Posted by balor on 12:21 pm on Dec. 25, 2001 Actually Milenko since homemade guns are of varying quality-depending on materials and quality of workmanship, it would be better to test it remotely as you said with an over powered bullet e.g.a hyper velocity .22 cartridge. If the gun fires a couple of those without exploding/barrel rupturing and when stripped shows no sign of weakened metal etc. it can be considered safe to fire a high velocity cartridge.You always test it with a more powerful bullet/cartridge so you can be sure it will be safe with the less powerful one. -- Posted by The Great Milenko on 12:29 pm on Dec. 25, 2001 Yes this is true what i mean by that no homemade gun is 100% safe is that after a while it tends to weaken the barrel so it will eventually break or crack but there are of course better ways to make a homemade firearm than others so it all depends on what type of piping your using and such -- Posted by balor on 12:36 pm on Dec. 25, 2001 Yes but you are playing it safe by using a lower power bullet.The proof houses do exactly the same.It is easy to get suitable 4130/4140 steel to make barrels etc. so if used properly the gun should be quite safe -- Posted by Ankou on 7:17 am on Dec. 26, 2001 I tested it the way u guys suggested and it seems to work fine. I've fired a couple of shots holding the gun in my hand too. (I used LV ammo when shhoting from hand.) It's pretty accurate in about 10 meters. I havent tested it at any longer range than that. Now that i have a revolver im gonna try to make a rifle too. (Im tired of my air rifle.) Anyhow.. Thanks for your advice guys! I really appreciate it. -- Posted by balor on 12:44 pm on Dec. 27, 2001 Just wondering Ankou what size are the groups at 10 meters? Did you drill out the blockage in the barrel or did you do what I did in replacing the barrel completely? Happy New Year Ankou! (Edited by balor at 12:47 pm on Dec. 27, 2001) (Edited by balor at 1:24 pm on Dec. 29, 2001) -- Posted by Ankou on 4:19 pm on Dec. 28, 2001 I replaced the barrel completely. And as for the first question i didnt really understand what you meant with "what size the groups are 10 meters?" Im pretty good at speaking english but this time i failed at understanding. Happy new year to you too balor! -- Posted by balor on 1:21 pm on Dec. 29, 2001 I was just wondering that if you shot off about three to five rounds and measured the distance between the two holes that are the furthest from each other, it is just a measure of accuracy, the nearer together the shots are naturally the more accurate it is. Like with my Ruger 77/22 .22magnum I can get 2.5cm groups(2.5cm is the distance between the two furthest apart holes when shot at 75meters) and with an antique derringer that I bought I get about 4cm groups at 10 meters. (Edited by balor at 1:28 pm on Dec. 29, 2001) -- Posted by Ankou on 6:49 am on Jan. 1, 2002 Oh yeah i suspected you meant something like that but i wasnt sure. I dont have many bullets so i havent shot  any more than eight bullets at each one of three targets. The first target had 3.7cm the second 3.2cm and the third 4.4cm. I suspect that im a pretty lousy shooter when it comes to pistols and revolvers but im improving. Rifles are much easier to shoot with but thats only my opinion. I had two shots going right into the bullseye on the first target so the revolver isnt that bad to shoot with. Or perhaps i just was lucky. -- Posted by balor on 4:04 pm on Jan. 2, 2002 Seems like a nice job you have done.Shooting a revolver or pistol is hard but considering you are I think  a beginner shooting revolvers,are firing from open sights, and are firing a homemade gun you have done a lot better than you have expected -Congratulations! -- Posted by Sicopath on 5:26 am on Jan. 3, 2002 From my experience, capgun bodies are usually light and flinchy, to improve accuracy, add weight to the body by filling hollows with lead or something. This reduces recoil, the reason rifles are easier to aim with is partly because of this reason. -- Posted by The Dark Avenger on 11:07 am on Jan. 3, 2002 I must be missing something. All of the cap guns around here are made of plastic or peweter (mostly plastic seeing as how pewter is not being used much anymore) and are very unlikely to contain a blast generated by an ammunition round. I'm not saying it can't be done, because (aparently) it has, but what keeps the concussion from the fired round from tearing apart the gun in your hand? Just curious. -- Posted by dellexo on 1:48 pm on Jan. 3, 2002 Quote: from The Dark Avenger on 11:07 am on Jan. 3, 2002 I must be missing something. All of the cap guns around here are made of plastic or peweter (mostly plastic seeing as how pewter is not being used much anymore) and are very unlikely to contain a blast generated by an ammunition round. I'm not saying it can't be done, because (aparently) it has, but what keeps the concussion from the fired round from tearing apart the gun in your hand? Just curious. I know what you mean.I tried it in a old blank fierer years ago.Most of these guns are made of some shitty old die-cast metal(the same metal used in toy cars).When i fired mine using a length of string tied round the trigger with the gun wedged under my bed the whole thing blew to peices sending the hammer through the base of me bed:o -- Posted by The Great Milenko on 2:18 am on Jan. 4, 2002 HAHAHA!! thats some funny shit, yeah i hafta agree with you guys, they must be gettin' them from somewere special...if i could find a sturdy metal cap gun i'd love to try this but if you were of age to be able to get bullets for a gun why not just buy one?! apart from the fact they're a whole lot cheaper -- Posted by dellexo on 1:33 pm on Jan. 4, 2002 Yeah,I would love to own a real handgun but unfortunatly some nutter over here(U.K.)killed 12 young kids before killing himself(sick fuck).After that all handguns were banned including .22,bummer aint it:sad:Which was a complete waste of time because the gun he used was not licenced anyway. -- Posted by Ankou on 1:37 pm on Jan. 4, 2002 Well its called a license Milenko. You have to have a license to buy a gun and the ammunition required for it. I got my bullets from a friend of mine that has a license. I suppose i could get one myself but i havent had the time. On the other hand i could buy a brand new gun through him instead. He goes in and buys the gun for me and thats it. But theres a small problem. The gun gets registered in his name so if i accidentally shot someone and ditched the gun and it was found he would be in deep shit. But of course i could just file off the serial number off the gun. But theres still a risk that they would trace the gun to the accident by checking if the bullets match and so on. -- Posted by Ankou on 1:42 pm on Jan. 4, 2002 Yeah.. Thats too bad dellexo. But if you somehow can get hold of ammunition you could make a pipe gun or something like that. But i wouldnt do that i think.. Since the more you shoot the more the pipe weakens. And it could explode in your hands. But if you have a thick pipe and you use standard .22 ammo it should be somewhat safer. -- Posted by dellexo on 1:50 pm on Jan. 4, 2002 Looks like i will have to keep trying to get one on the Black Market,I dont have the right contacts bummer aint it:sad: -- Posted by balor on 5:17 pm on Jan. 4, 2002 Well Milenko and every one else I have two unconverted blank firers at the moment.A Glock top firing pistol and a Colt Detective front firing blank firer.They are both totally steel except for the Glock which has an ABS lower receiver in line with the original.There is no trace of zinc anywhere in the guns-all(all steel)and they are the same weight as the originals(so weight to accuracy is not a problem).I got them nowhere special!I just put in a bit of a fucking  effort trying to find a suitable source on the net!!!!If you cant find them look at  www.guns2u.com  .The glock they sell is front firing and superior to mine and would still need a totally new barrel.The Colt could be drilled out by a drill press(oversized and a barrel sleeve fitted)or failing this a length of 1/8" plumbing pipe screws into the muzzle(for the blank firing attachment)-which I got at   http://www.atozsupply.com   (suitable tubing 4130/4140 for barrel sleeves can be got at    www.onlinemetals.com   ).With a bit of common sense and thinking with the right tools and materials you can build or convert any kind of gun!Seems like Myself and Ankou are the only people in this thread who actually know what we are on about and go to the effort to prove it in what we make!!!!!!!!!!!!   (Edited by balor at 5:19 pm on Jan. 4, 2002) -- Posted by dellexo on 5:26 pm on Jan. 4, 2002 Thanks for the advice balor, but why the snobbery?.I thought that a forum was to answer and ASK questions!.:sad: have a joint/drink and chill man (Edited by dellexo at 7:00 pm on Jan. 4, 2002) -- Posted by The Great Milenko on 1:06 am on Jan. 5, 2002 LOL yeah, of course im not gonna know this sorta shit if i was asking questions right? i just figured that if you had a license to get bullets why not get a real gun? thats all, i mean if i've never tried any of this shit of course i'd be asking ppl and tryin to find out shit so then i would know -- Posted by Ankou on 9:07 am on Jan. 5, 2002 Yeah youre right Milenko. A forum is to answer and ask questions just like dellexo said. -- Posted by balor on 2:47 pm on Jan. 5, 2002 Sorry if I offended you Dellexo but look at the above posts.They all describe cap guns/blank firers that were common about fifteen or twenty years ago when they were of die-cast construction and the two halves of the gun were brazed or soldered together.Like you said and  the Dark avenger said below about pewter being used and that it wouldnt contain the blast.Well for starters if the body was made of zinc alloy(its not pewter)(all mine are steel bodied) it should be ok.What needs to be looked at is the barrel and the cylinder(in a revolver) seeing that they are the only pressure bearing components in a gun.The barrel can be fixed by replacing it with a barrel sleeve made of 4130/4140 moly steel.The cylinder is a different story.It can be either totally replaced or just use a suitable power cartridge to eliminate the chance of a blowout using the proof house test I described above.If it a single shot weapon,just replacing the barrel is enough since the chamber is contained in the barrel as with my Derringer.As I said above"with a bit of common sense and thinking with the right tools and materials you can build or convert any kind of gun"Taking care of the barrel and cylinder is usually always enough"As for me going to the effort of trying to find a suitable blankfirer that was directed at Milenko.Look inside the back pages of any gun magazine or in Gun mart(uk).Its not that hard just not exactly "somewhere special" as Milenko said.I just dont like 15 year olds like Milenko implying that I somehow magically produced a blank firer from a source only known to myself,one that needs only a little work to reactivate it.It just implys that I was just bullshiting about whatever I already made. As to why I make Guns,I do own guns -A couple of rifles, a shotgun and my converted pistols and revolvers.I just do it to prove that it can be done and to prove to people like Milenko that it can be done easily by putting in a bit of effort!! Hell like my Colt revolver fires .380 blanks.With the flare attachment fitted there is only a 3mm hole in which to use the gases to fire the flare.If the gun can cope with the pressure with this attachment on it, it proves the sturdyness of the gun.With my Glock there is no flare attachment as it is top firing and there is always a 3mm hole to vent the gases so I dont think there is a question of the suitability of blankfirers to conversion.As for the forum being a place for questions and answers I agree totally!!Ankou and me were asking each other stuff and helping each other out in this and other threads which were firearms related.All the people who were saying that cap guns are made of pewter and plastic were saying that it couldnt be done!Jesus I mean maybe different countries different variations of products ie.Blankfirers-aka.cap guns.It worked for me and it worked for Ankou and nobody asked anything about the conversion process,it was just what they saw in the posts.Everybody just said that it couldnt be done,well nobody asked the question so I had to answer it to prove that it could be easily done!!Ye just started discussing a cheap and obsolute kind of blankfirer-cap gun while not knowing what modern materials went in to modern blank firers and what the conversion process entailed! (Edited by balor at 4:11 pm on Jan. 5, 2002) -- Posted by dellexo on 9:09 pm on Jan. 5, 2002 No offence taken balor;)but i have actualy converted a .22 break barrel air rifle to fire a projectile using nail gun (hilti) cartridges.The chamber was drilled and reamed out to accept a 6.65mm hilti cartridge.I removed the piston,drilled and tapped a hole,fixed small bolt in the hole and filled it to hit rim of cartridge.The fireing pin(bolt) when fixed to the piston comes through the air transfer port and strikes the rim of the shell.The spring needs to be down rated quite a bit, being far to powerfull just to set off cartridge.The only pellet(bullet) that i found suiatable for this was a zinc alloy pellet uses in some makes of pre-charged air pistols(brockock i think).these pellets are solid not, waisted or skirted and have 3 rings round them to act as driving bands.The gun was quite powerfull but not very acurate,the only problem was that after each shot the case had to be prised out.I think it would have been a lot better if i could get hold of some .22lr,but living in England there's not much chance of that:sad: -- Posted by The Dark Avenger on 2:01 am on Jan. 6, 2002 Just to let you know where I'm standing... I'm 25 yrs old, and the last ca[ gun I had was when I was about 10, so yeah..LOL..I guess they were made a little differently then. I never said or insinuated that producing a functional firearm from a cap gun (or blank firer for that matter) was inpossible. I have seen and done too many things to dissmiss ANYTHING as impossible. I wasn't aware that they were making toys out of better materials now days, thus the reason for my doubt and the posting of my question. Furthermore, I took no offence to anything said in reply (either directly or indirectly) to my post. :) -- Posted by Ankou on 7:02 am on Jan. 6, 2002 Hey dellexo that thing you said about you converting your air rifle so it could fire nailgun cartridges gave me an idea. I have lots of hilti cartridges and an air pistol that is constructed exactly the same way as an air rifle. You break the barrel up, cock it and put in a .177 projectile. Then you can shoot. It could probably be converted in the very same way as you described. Itīs not a .22 caliber gun but a .177 (4.5mm) and it has a fairly thick barrel. i suppose it would work. But another thing.. Here in finland you can buy crossbows when you're 16. And you dont need a license of any sort. I dont know how it is where you live. A crossbow could be very accurate and deadly. As good as any firearm. And probably cheaper. But then we come to the main problem. Range. A crossbow doesnt have as long range as a gun. But its better than nothing. -- Posted by balor on 1:21 pm on Jan. 6, 2002 Dellexo seeing as you are in the UK a reasonable choice for you getting a gun is from France.I saw it in another forum about buying a gun in France.There guns are divided into different categories.I think .22 rifles are in the 7th category.That means that there is no restriction on buying one(just that you have to be over a certain age-16 etc.).Maybe if you got over to France(holidays etc.) you could fix yourself up with one.I think only a photocopy of a piece of ID is required.Fake ID can be got at  www.belvine.co.uk   .Surely they have something that can apply to France, a European ID at least for you to put on a french address. As for getting it back postage is normally the best.Just to break up the outline of the rifle with tinfoil to camouflage an xray even though only 2% of post is just xrayed.A better way would be to send the barrel/firing mechanism in a steel pipe and to carry the stock in your luggage.As for ammunition only a good friend can sort you out there. I often thought of an easy way to get a rifle.Just pick out one that you like,put down a deposit-using a fake name of course, a month later come back with a faked cert. with the details of your rifle on it and pay for the rest of the gun.Firearm certs here are easy to fake as they are print outs-Just black print on white paper.The old ones were black print on a two sided green paper which would be only slightly harder to fake.When I bought my first rifle this idea occured to me.It definitely is the way to go if you can get a real cert to produce the fake from.It would certainly solve the ammunition problem as you would have a cert to buy them with!! -- Posted by dellexo on 9:28 pm on Jan. 6, 2002 Thanks balor,i shall bear that in mind. -- Posted by The Great Milenko on 1:45 am on Jan. 7, 2002 What i meant by what i said wasnt that it couldnt be done like you said balor i was merely implying i didnt know HOW it could be done with such shitty cap guns as today's ones but i never thought that you may be using ones that were made a while ago and were of proper quality. Also i am 15 as you said and i live in Australia Which (as far as i can tell) is much harder to obtain many things mentioned on this site starting from kno3 and other explosive igredients and it's the same thing for guns and ammo so exuse me because this is all i know and i dont know anything of how easy it might be to obtain such things in other countries like the UK so disriminate me for such things i am merely trying to find out as much as possible on these sort of things -- Posted by dellexo on 7:46 pm on Jan. 7, 2002 Quote: from Ankou on 7:02 am on Jan. 6, 2002 Hey dellexo that thing you said about you converting your air rifle so it could fire nailgun cartridges gave me an idea. I have lots of hilti cartridges and an air pistol that is constructed exactly the same way as an air rifle. You break the barrel up, cock it and put in a .177 projectile. Then you can shoot. It could probably be converted in the very same way as you described. Itīs not a .22 caliber gun but a .177 (4.5mm) and it has a fairly thick barrel. i suppose it would work. But another thing.. Here in finland you can buy crossbows when you're 16. And you dont need a license of any sort. I dont know how it is where you live. A crossbow could be very accurate and deadly. As good as any firearm. And probably cheaper. But then we come to the main problem. Range. A crossbow doesnt have as long range as a gun. But its better than nothing. What would be the best projectile to use?iv'e tried normal pellets at first but the pressure of the gas just rips of the skirt on a normal lead pellet makeing it very eratic in flight loosing power very quickly:sad:Ive seen alloy solid pellets avaliable in.22(5.5mm) but never in .177(4.5)what about wherer you live? -- Posted by Ankou on 10:30 am on Jan. 8, 2002 Well you could try and see if you can find round bb:s in caliber .22 for your rifle. They tend to spin around in the barrel when shot. And therefore they will be better to use. Try to find steel ones. When they spin they wont be affected by gravity as much as ordinary ones. But i dont know if its good when you have a rifled barrel. Experiment! And yes here in finland you can get .177 solid steel pellets. They are really good. If you have a rifle/pistol that uses .177 cal pellets. Then try to find the solid steel ones. They look like a small black cartridge with a grey steel tip. -- Posted by balor on 5:13 pm on Jan. 8, 2002 Well Milenko the cap guns that you have now are apparently equivalent to the cap guns that we had 15 to 20 years ago.The guns that I converted (and the ones that I didnt convert)were all bought last year, are all steel and incredibly robust.As I said above-Different countries Different variations of products. As for you Dellexo I remember seeing in a UK airgun magazine a couple of years ago about these pellets for sale.I cant remember the name of them just that they were named after the manufacturers surname.They were also sold in kits as the pellets were of a two piece projectile.They were available in .177 and .22.They were more like a real bullet than a pellet, were mostly made of steel and had a steel skirt.These seem to be a more suitable kind of pellet as with the steel skirt etc. but they were expensive so maybe the steel bbs are a better idea(maybe you could load three to four bbs in one go) but I cant remember ever seeing .22 bbs -- Posted by dellexo on 8:24 pm on Jan. 9, 2002 Thanks balor,i'll have a look:biggrin: -- Posted by Cypher on 10:14 pm on Jan. 9, 2002 This is real intersting. I should perhaps look for a sturdy model and see what i can do :D -- Posted by The Great Milenko on 11:42 pm on Jan. 9, 2002 Oh but you wouldnt give me one single bullet for my one!! >.< -- Posted by Cypher on 3:02 am on Jan. 10, 2002 LoL im Bullshittin!...Of course im not gonna try it! I just wanted 2 post something so i though i instead of sayin oowww well thats intersting i thought i would add something! I spin as much shit as you on here :) And no ur not getting ammo off me so dont ask! >.< ----xX Note even if i do go and make it its ok for me, cause there my bullets for my rifle >.<  and u didnt buy em did you..nooOOo. But id rather use my safe gun ^^ Again note that im not gonna try it...unless i feel like i want to =/ which i doubt i will. Got better things 2 do! (Edited by Cypher at 3:03 am on Jan. 10, 2002) -- Posted by JT666 on 6:02 pm on Mar. 11, 2002 ah Yes so can be done BUT will the english crappy cast things work ?? nooooooo so yeah i think the single action canabalised airgun is good enough but anyone have ideas for a multi shot .22 homemade thingy ? ? ? as ive heard it can be done ? ideas ? -- Posted by balor on 4:11 pm on Mar. 12, 2002 Well the only single shot blank firers Ive converted were Derringers etc. from England that had a barrel inserted made of correct 4130/4140 steel and Ive never had any problem with them.As for converting a semi automatic a whole new barrel has to be machined as the old one is pretty useless.I said before that a french semi usually has a flare projector to be attached on front.It is the same thread as a 1/8 pipe nipple so it seems to be the easiest conversion But the projectile has to be muzzle loaded each time.     http://www.bombshock.com