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Key copying


— Posted by Darkie on 5:44 pm on Mar. 20, 2002

Let’s say every once in a while i have access to a key that i really want a copy of. But i don’t have enough time to go make a copy of it. Does anyone know a good way to make a copy of it if i only have it for like 10 minutes at a time.
The only idea i have come up is to take 2 pieces of clay and impress the 2 sides of the key then after it hardens fit the 2 pieces together and melt either plastic or solder into it, like a mold. I would have to file it to make it more exact and it might take more than one go but i think that might work.
Any better ideas?


— Posted by Just0nePepsi on 5:47 pm on Mar. 20, 2002

It takes less than 10 minutes to get one made. Just make up some bullshit that you had to go someplace and get the key made.


— Posted by Darkie on 5:58 pm on Mar. 20, 2002

But technicly skipping school wouldn’t fly anyways. I wouldn’t have a problem withthis but i have to walk to and from my car (10 minutes) drive to the hardware store (10 minutes) get it copied(10 minutes) and by then they would notice.


— Posted by Just0nePepsi on 6:02 pm on Mar. 20, 2002

Well i got a better idea. Switch the key with a key you already have and don’t need. Get it copied and then put the original back and take off the fake and then you will have your double with no problem.


— Posted by Darkie on 6:04 pm on Mar. 20, 2002

The key is used very frequently. We tired just “forgetting to put it back” today and in less then an hour they hunted us dwn and took it back. If i were to switch it they would know and fast.


— Posted by Just0nePepsi on 6:08 pm on Mar. 20, 2002

Well you could try grinding down the key yourself.


— Posted by Darkie on 7:04 pm on Mar. 20, 2002

yea i could,but i would need blanks. I can buy/steal blanks but how would i know which one i need?


— Posted by Just0nePepsi on 7:07 pm on Mar. 20, 2002

just pick a few.


— Posted by Darkie on 7:11 pm on Mar. 20, 2002

ok, i’ll try just snaging a bunch with the same shape. ut any other ideas?


— Posted by Just0nePepsi on 7:14 pm on Mar. 20, 2002

Just grind them as close as you can to the original. Just work on it for 10 minutes a day and try to get it looking the same. Thats all i think of.


— Posted by brainwave on 9:36 pm on Mar. 20, 2002

what is the key used for?:cool:


— Posted by brainwave on 9:37 pm on Mar. 20, 2002

what is the key used for?:cool:


— Posted by johnny 99 on 3:05 am on Mar. 21, 2002

Actually your original idea will work. Thats how the CIA used to do it, I’ve done it myself a couple oftimes. What you need: 1. small metal box (coff drops etc.) 2. modelling clay 3. graphite powder ( lock lube, powdered pencil lead). 4. wax paper 5. 2 part epoxy (LIQUID) 6. small wire. OK what you want to do is, open the box and pack both halves completely full of clay. then smooth flat on both the faces that will touch when the box is closed. sandwitch the piece of wax paper between the clay so you dont mar it when you close the box. Now get the key, open the box. sprinkle the graphite onto both facesof the clay ( use a lot) so that it is evenly covered. lay the key on the clay, and close the box. the graphite will keep the key from sticking to the clay and tearing your mold. open box and use the wire to very carfully pick up the key again dont disturb the imprint. close box, return key. then at your lesure, open box make a small flue ( fill tube) from the edge of your mould to the handle part of the key. close box stand on edge , mix epoxy and pour it into the flue. a couple of hours later crack it open and you have a plastic key. I recomend that you try to find someone to make a metal copy from this to use. But if you can’t the plastic one will work, just be gentle. Having posted all that I recomend that instead you make a snap pick gun ( 10 minutes) practice on your door (another 10 minutes) then just go and pick the lock. unless its a high security lock, you’ve got a very good chance of opening it in about five snaps. go to the thread on lockpicks I have a post on how to make a snap pick if you cant figure it out from my crapy descriptions Ill try to explain better!

0


— Posted by Darkie on 7:28 pm on Mar. 21, 2002

That is a great idea man, I’m not going to bother trying to pick it(i can prolly cause it is like other if have picked) but i need to move through about 3 or 4 doors(all with the same lock) in a short period of time. So makeing a copy would be best


— Posted by johnny 99 on 12:27 am on Mar. 22, 2002

If you are going to use it o several locks right in a row,then you should definitely get a metal key made. also watch out for security systems! GOOD LUCK


— Posted by STONNER420 on 3:17 pm on Mar. 22, 2002

you could take it to wal-mart and have them do it it dont take long there i had the same situation!


— Posted by Darkie on 6:09 pm on Mar. 22, 2002

Dude, thank you but u should have read some of the previous responses.


— Posted by loscgk83 on 11:42 pm on Mar. 22, 2002

key……..door………what is that?????
I don’t need no fuckin key …….a little c4 and fuse goes a long way!!!!but really makin mold bad idea it wont be perfect it might break in lock thats really bad and it takes alittle to much effort.just replace it with a fake and get it made at a hard ware store


— Posted by Darkie on 12:53 am on Mar. 23, 2002

It is used way to frequently to replace with a fake.

C4, yes thank you, i would like some.


— Posted by johnny 99 on 1:55 am on Mar. 23, 2002

Actually, it will be perfect if your carful and do a good job! as to breaking, thats why I sugjest that you have a metal key made from it.


— Posted by JaMeZz34 on 7:10 pm on Mar. 25, 2002

how long wud it take to set the mould in the clay, coz I need to break into this chemistry place, and the only axcess to a key would be it being left on a desk.

Cheers


— Posted by ghettopimp70 on 10:47 pm on Mar. 25, 2002

Replace the key with a fake, then pull the fire alarm to buy extra time to get it copied


— Posted by johnny 99 on 10:56 pm on Mar. 25, 2002



Quote: from JaMeZz34 on 12:10 am on Mar. 26, 2002
how long wud it take to set the mould in the clay, coz I need to break into this chemistry place, and the only axcess to a key would be it being left on a desk.

Cheers


                                        About 15/30 seconds depending on how carefull you are to make a good mold, and what kind of box u use . practice makes perfect.


— Posted by knightmedia on 1:59 am on Mar. 26, 2002

Making a mold will work, but you have to realize that clay will shrink, too, so get a molding material that will shrink minimally, like silly puddy or good old fashioned play-do.

If you intend to do this frequently, get a key ruler (or make one) and write down the cuts on a piece of paper (or trace the damn thing for that matter) and then grind the cuts into a thin piece of metal (I like spark-plug gappers. 20 keys all neatly organized in a couple cubic centimeters) and use it as a pick (it’ll hold the pins at the right position. Use a screwdriver to turn the keyhole)


— Posted by johnny 99 on 2:13 am on Mar. 26, 2002

The clay, will only shrink if you let it dry out, or if you fire it. which your not. so don’t worry about it. But I like knightmedias Idea also.with a bit of playing around, you should be able to just take a picture of the key next to a reference measurement. and cut a lifter with that. Hmmmmmm interesting!!


— Posted by JaMeZz34 on 4:46 am on Mar. 26, 2002

do you have to sort of ‘inject’ the epoxy into the mold? its well annoying cos the key is on a key ring with about 50 others!, i thought i could take measurements and stuff over time, then file it into some of those skeleton keys or some other not needed keys. wud that work???

Cheers


— Posted by johnny 99 on 5:06 am on Mar. 26, 2002

Yes jamez it works vry wel to use a syringe to inject the epoxy, if not you should rap the mod on the table several times after you have poured the epoxy to get all the air ubbles to rise to the surface. But this method robbably won’t work with you’r warded lock. The epoxy wont be stong enough to withstand the twisting required to spring the levers. However if you can get a clay mold of one side of the key you don’t need to use epoxy, just file a piece of brass fat stock or something to the shape  of the key. warded locks are very forgiving and have really sloppy tolerances.


— Posted by someoneisluke on 5:40 am on Mar. 26, 2002

just go to the hardware !!!!


— Posted by JaMeZz34 on 8:15 am on Mar. 26, 2002

???? whats the hardware


— Posted by yourunforgivenII on 10:25 am on Mar. 26, 2002

hey, if youve got nothing to lose, why not steal the key, get it copied, then return it at night when no one is there to catch you ?


— Posted by JaMeZz34 on 11:32 am on Mar. 26, 2002

wud this work: if i took a quick print of the head of the key into bluetack, and put ground pencil lead into it, then filled it with epoxy glue,  let it dry, then take it out, and draw or scratch round od a piece of metal…then start filing!!!  wud it??????

Cheers


— Posted by johnny 99 on 11:43 am on Mar. 26, 2002

For a warded door lock yes. for  pin tumbler lock see knight medias post above, thats what he’s talking about.


— Posted by JaMeZz34 on 12:21 pm on Mar. 26, 2002

what metal would be the best to use (eg. copper or steel)

Cheers


— Posted by johnny 99 on 12:31 pm on Mar. 26, 2002

Brass, or aluminum, both are soft enough to easily cut with the file, but stiff enough to work. copper is a little soft but might work. steel would be great but your letting yourself in for a lot more work.


— Posted by JaMeZz34 on 12:44 pm on Mar. 26, 2002

does the height of the key have to be very accurate (e.g. to the nearest mm)

Cheers


— Posted by JaMeZz34 on 1:23 pm on Mar. 26, 2002

i tried the thing with bluetak, but it fuked up. can u suggest something easier to make a print with????

Cheers


— Posted by johnny 99 on 1:45 pm on Mar. 26, 2002

I’m not sure what blue tac is ? use modeling clay. You should go to this site , it will give you a better Idea of whats going on. http://www.wilton.force9.co.uk/lock/mechanism.html

(Edited by johnny 99 at 6:45 pm on Mar. 26, 2002)


— Posted by knightmedia on 5:16 pm on Mar. 26, 2002

The best material for a key hands down is brass (which is why almost all of the keys on your keyring are made out of this material) — it’s soft enough to cut easily, but hard enough so as to not bend and distort easily. It gives REALLY well under the pressure of a cutting wheel, too.  If you want a key that will last for just about ever, use stainless steel. It’s a nightmare to cut, though.

I think anyone messing with locks (for ANY reason) should understand their basics. Once you understand how they work, bypassing them is a snap.


— Posted by JaMeZz34 on 5:07 am on Mar. 27, 2002

would it work if i filled the print with solder??

Cheers


— Posted by johnny 99 on 11:52 am on Mar. 27, 2002

No, lead is to soft. But you might be able to  use high temp  silver solder? Or, if non of these methods are working for you, then you might want to consider lock bypass methods that dont include a key ie; carding, a z wire or going through the window, etc. without going knowing a lot more about the setup I can’t really say what though.


— Posted by JaMeZz34 on 2:53 pm on Mar. 27, 2002

what is carding????

Cheers


— Posted by johnny 99 on 2:59 pm on Mar. 27, 2002

Wen you slide a plastic card in between the door and jamb to shim the latch open. this won’t work on deadbolt locks,or springlatch locks that have a wood strip, nail, or other device in place to prevent it. I’ll see if I can find you a link about some of these methods. it would take to long to explain them all.


— Posted by JaMeZz34 on 4:13 pm on Mar. 27, 2002

are u aware of some locks having some kind of anti-pick device thing (by that i mean, if u try to turn one part of it without any of the wards in it…it’ll fuk up!)
sory i cant explain this in much detail

Cheers


— Posted by knightmedia on 1:12 am on Mar. 29, 2002

The only “anti-picking” devices I can think of are oddly shaped driver pins (mushrooms and ridged) that make the pins “false set” which means you THINK they’ve set when they haven’t, making the lock harder to pick than usual.

Medeco and a few other companies have put out “high security key locks” that are impossible to pick. Medeco’s use a proprietary rotating pin design with a lock bar, and there is absolutely no way to pick them, or copy the keys without a Medeco key machine.

It wouldn’t make sense to make a lock that will fuck up if an attempt is made to pick it, because then the lock would have to be destroyed to replace it. No manufacturer would risk losing customers that way.

-Jake


— Posted by somefukinsnapov on 6:36 am on Mar. 29, 2002

knightmedia…rather than qoute you ill just say

what is a driver pin??
do you mean bottom pin from the bottom chamber of the cylinder(plug)

mushroom pins as u said are correct and are being used not only on a security system (such as medico)
but are also used in cheap immitation taiwanese padlocks as many other forms and styles of affordable products produced mainly for the honest theif!!!!!

a mushroom pin only allows the top pin to move from side to side aswell as up and down,making it not impossible to move just fiddly…(by this u shall need to pick one pin at a time)…… insted of raking the cylinder as commonly used by most purchased picking devices…which are cheap and nasty… money talks

medico can be picked …i know a mate thats done it;)
:biggrin:…. tight broches just need thinner picks;)


— Posted by knightmedia on 2:27 pm on Mar. 29, 2002

I’d like to meet this “mate” that can pick a medeco lock. I’ve heard of it being done before, but generally by accident, since there is no way to feel or hear the rotation set.

Mushroomed drivers are generally used in cheaper locks. The driver pin is the one loose inside the key chamber (the pin that the key “drives” up to the shear line).

I hope this helps.
-Jake


— Posted by somefukinsnapov on 1:36 am on Mar. 30, 2002

ever heard of 3rd person jackass!!!!
if i was to say I done it then i would get busted…. if i said i done it last night then this site would get shut down!!!! think about it and dont try to tell me that you “cant”do anything!!!!

as for medico it is an old product ,their patents have pretty much run out….when u can pick or talk about a caba quatro or bi-lock cylinder then u come back and run your mouth!!!;)


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