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War on Terror = Assault on Freedom

— Posted by Arquis on 8:02 pm on Feb. 3, 2002

I’ve been to Iran and Iraq. Nice people. How can we help them towards an end of tyranny? How can we help them avoid owing their soul to the IMF? Remember the ‘non-aligned’ nations? They’re now the enemy….after all, if you’re not with George the Shrub, you’re part of the terrorist problem. Can we wake America up? Can we put an education system back? Can we save the Constitution?????

— Posted by largeidaccam on 11:37 pm on Feb. 3, 2002

so what was the question??

— Posted by Arquis on 4:18 am on Feb. 4, 2002

i’ll take that as a ‘no’….

— Posted by vigilante on 5:37 am on Feb. 4, 2002

I think he is on the wrong site?

— Posted by balor on 3:22 pm on Feb. 4, 2002

Well as twarting the fourth Reich,the ordinary German citizen gained a hell of a lot in the few short years of the third Reich.Every German citizen had enough to eat and no shortage of anything.Hitler was too ambitious and that led to his downfall,but he was fighting for a united Europe under Germany.57 years after the end of WW2 we now have a Europe with a common currency and a loose form of central government sponsered by Germany.I dont fear the fourth Reich.Strong leadership is what the world needs.Its only the people who cannot accept change and reject a strong,objective policy,fear it in favour of compromise and loss of of social progression and national identity.The current campaign by the US is typical of the stern action needed in the world today.Like people are complaining of conditions in Camp x-ray.These people cut off human hands for stealing, gave a death sentence for flying a kite and let the local Afghanis starve to death.The prisoners are in better conditions than a large percentage of the worlds population.They deserve whatever punishment they get but for the shortterm live in “luxury” conditions compared to what they are used to.The tougher the action taken the better!!I think loss of freedom is when you let these terrorists off everytime they commit an atrocity.Its about time they knew they cannot get away with it again!Maybe then true freedom will be restored when Bin Ladens corpse is dragged through New York.

— Posted by needmoney4weed on 6:45 pm on Feb. 6, 2002

I dont think that you can blame the islamic fundementalist group for the whole situation, you have to look at it from a broader perspective. I am in no way justifying the WTC attack because the the killing of the inocent is just wrong, but you have to take into consideration the previous US suppresion in palestine (i.e. OPAC) and mercenary activity b/c of Japan’s national resouces, whateva im not gunna go into that now. The piont is the retaliaion agianst the US cannot be justified but i can certanly be understood, it wasnt out of the blue. Also, we continue to kill indiscriminatly in Afganistan but the media will supply a number close to that of the number of people killed in the WTC crisis, but its really more like 20,000. Also this can be determined by anyone because you have to think of the size of a terrorist + military personel.

— Posted by fuckBeye on 11:33 pm on Feb. 6, 2002

I think Arquis has two daddy’s  🙂

1. This kid loves Iranians & Iraqis.

2. This kid comes to a site called bombshock.com

3. He posts in the Crime, Anarchy & Disorder forum

LOL! Arqis, what you need is a Qasem rocket and/or a mortar attack on the family mansion!


You asked: “How can we help them (terrorists) towards an end of tyranny?”

Don’t worry your groomed little head about the Persian/Iraqi tyranny. The Israelis will put an end to THAT.

I just answered your question, fucker!


You asked: “Can we save the Constitution?”

If you were my neighbor I’d wash your mouth out with piss for using that word (after I stomp the FUCK out of you)!!!!!!

BTW I went to your hero’s website and I think Paul William Roberts sux. Big time. I’ll bet he wont be too happy when he gets my e-mail seein’ you posted a link to his site on BOMBSHOCK! Did you realize that when you posted the link SOMEBODY might actually go there, and might SEE that your hero has a book titled:

‘Smokescreen: one man’s fight against the underworld’

You stupid bastard – you need to take up another cause (NO not campaigning for AlGore!) like how to survive in the NEW WORLD of lawlessness. Oh I forgot you’re a fag so you’ll just GIVE UP. You better hope you don’t survive cause I WILL rule over YOU, Johnny Jihad!

P.S.  Any (self inflicted) oppression your buds are suffering is really heaven on earth, so they should ENJOY it! Islam is a false religion and they’re ALL going to Hell!!!

What’s that joke I heard the other day… When one of these martyrs dies, they don’t get 76 virgins – They all get ONE 76 yr old virgin – JANET RENO!! 😀

— Posted by Arquis on 10:41 am on Feb. 7, 2002

I should ignore the Nazi contingent, but the historically illiterate are ever with us, so it’s worth stating that Adolf Hitler’s policies acheived only the complete destruction of Germany, and that, far from political genius, he was little more than an incompetent crook in thrall to a depraved oligarchy concerned merely with its own profits.

As for Islam v the West, my point that — unless your news quotient is CNN alone — the Islamists have a case against western hegemony that bears looking into if we would understand their hostility. It is not served by increasing that hostility, and it is certainly not served by an obsequious attitude toward Big Government. Anyone who has travelled outside the US realizes that there is little or no hostility from the average person in the average country toward anyone. We are the hostile ones, not they. Perhaps what we need is little or no government for the world to function more like a world and less like an appendage to BIG business interests. those of you who spit hatred should look within yourselves first to see who it is you really hate. Judging by the shoddy thinking and total ignorance of historical realities, it must be your own stupidity and laziness that irk you most. No revolution has a place for these qualities.

— Posted by balor on 4:58 pm on Feb. 7, 2002

Well Arquis I prefer to call myself a realist who can sit back and analyse the situation.You neednt call me “the Nazi contingent” as we are National Socialists.Adolf Hitlers dreams of domination led to an outbreak of war which of course Germany lost.Maybe National Socialism would never have took hold in Germany without Hitler but it was some of Hitlers policies that brought destruction to Germany and other of his policies that brought Germany from an almost bankrupt,starving country to a country to be socially proud of in six years.The world needs the same sort of strong leadership which is now emerging in the US.Dont get me wrong its not a bad thing its just that with a democratically elected government they are more often than not going to do nothing when something besides economic problems happen as they are worried of the fallout at election time will lead to their loss of power.The problem of doing nothing has become endemic in modern society.We have the problem for years the homeless were only given trivial service,they starved,suffered from alcoholism and drug addiction with no help from the government.The only thing they had to look forward to was a warm blanket at Christmas and some warm soup every couple of nights.Then the arrival of refugees became a problem.Since it is our obligation under an obsolute piece of law which upon being drafted was only meant to last until 1951 to accomodate refugees from Europe after WW2 our government felt obligated to accomodate all these people because any nonconpliance would tarnish our international standing. They thought the solution was to accomodate them in hostels,hotels,chalets and any other kind of accomodation.They then complain that they want a bigger room/house even if the house might be sufficently big enough.Like if I came from a wartorn or starving country Id be grateful for what was given to me,and to be safe and away from the problem that caused me to leave in the first place!Just 300 meters from where I live 40 old people in nursin home were given a couple of days notice to pack their bags and make room for asylum seekers.I mean our own are being fucked about for the pleasure of foreigners.
Strong leadership is about tackling a problem head on like what the US is doing and great credit is due to them.After all with the embassy bombings they launched a few Tomahawks at a few abandoned mudhouse training camps(After the chemical plant in Sudan was proven to be innocent).It was hardly really going to hurt Bin Laden. This time the US is going to cut the flow of Islamic extremists by tackling the source.This will make it safe for the ordinary Joe Soap in the long term and some people will not look at Arabs with the same suspicious looks as they still do after September 11 so everybody can have peace of mind hence freedom is restored!For too long the needs of the few have outweighed the needs of the many in a democratically elected government.Burying your head in the sand or spreading dissent about the present campaign will not make the problem go away.That will only come through strong leadership and brave,wise decisions.
I never said I had anything Islamists myself.Its only the kind who express themselves by the use of the bomb and the bullet I dont like.As for Islamic states they were commonly volatile states e.g.Iran especially when one country contained different branches of the same religion e.g.Iraq. Where I dont blame the US for burning their fingers is Israel.They blindly support a state that legitamitly throws Palestinians off their lands,bulldouses their houses and shoots their family who try with stones to fight off the Israeli tanks.The Israeli state comsists predominately of European jew refugees that arrived after WW2.If anyother people decided to come in and take over somebodys land it would be seen as invasion.Its just that the US needed at the time a US ally in the area.Were all entitled to our opinion Arquis so dont act the prick again with me.By the way people were the first to die in the gas chambers,so watch out Arquis my hand may be on the gas.Sarin or Zyklon take your pick!!

(Edited by balor at 5:00 pm on Feb. 7, 2002)

— Posted by fuckBeye on 6:36 pm on Feb. 7, 2002

Nurse; scalpel…

I should ignore the Nazi contingent, but the historically illiterate are ever with us, so it’s worth stating that Adolf Hitler’s policies acheived only the complete destruction of Germany, and that, far from political genius, he was little more than an incompetent crook in thrall to a depraved oligarchy concerned merely with its own profits.

Hmmmm, ‘historically illiterate’. I’m probably twice your age and have witnessed the re-writing of history for over 2 decades. Lets compare history books – whose are you reading?

Punk, the only way to REALLY know history with 100% accuracy is to survive the experience yourself (and I don’t mean riding around the block on the ‘Pacific Princess’). Instead of dedicating your life to showing everyone on this BB how fuckin’ ignorant you are, why don’t you do something constructive, like trying to liberate the Lebanese from the Syrians? ALL men twist the truth & have an agenda (like you & your teachers) to persuade the ignorant one way or other; it’s just that some are better liars than others. In the absense of facts to analyze it’s a question of WHO to believe. You’re problem is you have a MINORITY world view, but you are blinded to this truth because you are engulfed BY this minority, and WITHIN this minority you are persuaded by others that yours alone is ‘the just cause’. These cave dwelling diaper headed fags are using you and your computer to recruit help for them and you’re stupid enough to fall for it! BUSTED! What do you get out of this? You get FUCKED in yur arab-lovin’ wallet (or purse, in YOUR case :))!

As for Islam v the West, my point that — unless your news quotient is CNN alone — the Islamists have a case against western hegemony that bears looking into if we would understand their hostility.  

Islamic hostility is rooted in HATRED & JEALOUSY of the descendants of Jacob (Jews)  by the descendents of Esau (Arabs) who sold the birthright for a bowl of chili – sheesh! What a DUMBASS!! – In case you forgot, this sibling rivalry / Arab agression has been ongoing for THOUSANDS OF YEARS before the rise of the ‘western hegemony’. Furthermore, you have isolated yourself with that ‘western hegemony’ statement. The ‘west’ includes Toronto, where you claim to be located (double dumbass!).

It is not served by increasing that hostility, and it is certainly not served by an obsequious attitude toward Big Government. Anyone who has travelled outside the US realizes that there is little or no hostility from the average person in the average country toward anyone.

Next time you’re in Somalia try wearing an ‘average’ NYPD ballcap and see what happens.

We are the hostile ones, not they.

WE? Oh, YOU are SOOOO hostile, Arkie! If you’re not careful you’re liable to ‘hurt someones feelings’! It’s good to see you accept YOU’RE part of the problem. You got a guilty conscience, boy?

Perhaps what we need is little or no government for the world to function more like a world and less like an appendage to BIG business interests.

Little or no government. Right section, WRONG idea. Anarchy is a means to an end. No electricity = no computer, no bombshock, no forum for you to post in…get the picture?  

those of you who spit hatred should look within yourselves first to see who it is you really hate.

Judging by the shoddy thinking and total ignorance of historical realities, it must be your own stupidity and laziness that irk you most. No revolution has a place for these qualities.

You’re a wanna-be revolutionary! This is fucking great!!!

Hey, zit face – The USA is #1 MoFo, & we didn’t get that way by blowing ourselves up in pizza parlors & bar mitzfas! You might want to do a google search for ‘kamikazi’ and check out how successful this program was for the Japanese! The idea is to KILL THE OTHER GUY, and live to kill another day. It really IS counterproductive to kill yourself. Although your case may be the exception.  

You smell like the kind of shit that caused me to seek out a place like bombshock.com in the first place. Not out of FEAR, rather for information. I can’t wait to get my sights on you terrorist sympathizers. I know your type and I despise it. I hunt and kill animals, sometimes I eat ’em, sometimes I just kill ’em to be killing something. You like to hug trees, I like to put them in my wood stove. I come here to learn. What I learn I will share. What I know I will share. Simple.

It’s not your fault you’re a coward. It’s the way you were raised. Claiming Toronto as your home (while living in the US I suspect) you more than likely have French ancestry. And just as in WW2, The French have ONCE AGAIN surrendered Paris, Thi$ time to the Arab$. It all adds up.

Here at bombshock you will find a TRUE revolutionary spirit, of which you are surely welcome to take part in, but I really doubt you’ll have any luck recruiting anyone other than the Feds – just a warning 🙂 If you got some recipies or info to share, let’s have ’em – otherwise…

You’ve just been had by the fuckBeye!

— Posted by jmb1125 on 10:36 pm on Feb. 7, 2002

Interesting points, everyone.
Different views from different perspectives.
That’s what a forum is for.
Thank you for participating.

— Posted by Arquis on 11:01 pm on Feb. 7, 2002

Cro-Magnon still exists, clinging on to its pathetic myopeia. The world has evolved, cracker-head — haven’t you noticed? It’s left you far behind. Wake up, you psychopathic jerk!

— Posted by largeidaccam on 11:33 pm on Feb. 7, 2002

whys everyone ripping aquis?? let him have his say

— Posted by Arquis on 4:36 pm on Feb. 8, 2002

I appreciated Balor’s reply, and indeed will appreciate any dialogue that doesn’t resort to swaggering macho threats or guff from gun-nuts. I had a number of meetings with Ernst Zundel the Holocaust-denier here when I was writing articles about the American far-right; I also spent time at Hayden Lake in Idaho. What I found ultimately objectionable about Zundel and the Aryan Nations people was their refusal to deal with the counter-arguments and their reliance on texts that are provably fraudulent. On the other hand, I found the core support of local farmers in Idaho to have far more tangible issues behind their anger. Particularly with the banks that were repossessing farms. It is when this anger is directed toward Jews that I find myself groaning. Similarly with the Jews-Freemasons conspiracy theories. This is all atavistic superstition, the fear of the ‘other’ — a provincial prejudice born of ignorance, nothing more. As a political ideology, I find National Socialism somewhat confusing, since it combines oxymoronically two entirely apposite ideologies: nationalism and socialism. Socialism is essentially international in nature, envisaging a brotherhood of workers united in the dignity of labor rather than divided by petty nationalistic fears and poisoned by organized religion’s lies. Nationalism, along with the racism and religious intolerance that accompany it, is an ideology swimming against the current. It’s no different from the tribalism that is turning Africa into a global welfare case. Anything that forces us to take sides is ultimately inimical to our collective welfare. You cannot perceive reality if you take sides — you see only one side or even just one facet of it. As Hermann Goering remarked, people don’t want to go to war; they just want to get on with their lives peacefully. In order to make them want to go to war you have to make them feel they are being threatened. For all the horror of September 11, the only surprising or ‘unbelievable’ aspect of it really was that it didn’t happen sooner. Tally up American atrocities around the world — and I’ve witnessed some first-hand — the civilian death-tolls are sobering. Had there been a Nuremberg-style trial after Vietnam, as Gen. Westmoreland himself has said, then a good number of the political and military elite would have found themselves facing the death-penalty for war crimes. I was in Baghdad during the Gulf War and saw the carnage —- and who was there but the old, women and children? The army was still in Kuweit. I gave testimony on the numbers of civilian dead and civilian targets bombed at Ramsey Clarke’s hearings to indict George Bush for war crimes — and I still believe there is a viable case. But history is writ by the victors — something stated often by the Hitler apologists — and the public is largely ignorant of what went on. Similarly with Henry Kissinger, who stalled the Paris peace talks and deliberately prolonged the Vietnam War for another six years….for no discernable purpose. Kissinger should be made responsible for all the American soldiers who were killed during those last six years, not to mention all the innocent Vietnamese, south and north. All governments try to increase their power — it is in the nature of institutions to grow until they cannot function. In the US you do not even have true democracy any more. With just two parties, you cannot even claim to have a choice — since two is an alternative. But in any case it is an oligarchy that controls everything. The fantasy may be that anyone can become a millionaire — and it’s true, anyone can. But the vast majority dont. Money is poured into a military machine that is entirely unnecessary and even useless in the kind of situation you have now. It can’t even find one man. A handful of highly trained specialists is all that’s required, because this crusade against terror is not a war. It’s an emergency, perhaps, but not a war. By making it a war you create a situation that no one can either win or lose. It could, in other words, go on forever. As tax dollars pour into the military, your cities are crumbling and you have made it a crime to be old and poor and sick. Education and health care are basic rights, not privileges, and no society that refuses to recognize this can call itself civilized.  

— Posted by balor on 5:12 pm on Feb. 8, 2002

Im glad that now this thread is gaining some normality.I take back my threat to gas you Arquis.Its just that I dont like being called a Nazi.Being a white Catholic I suppose naturally I should feel compassion for the plight of the Jews in Palestine but simply I refer to them as the agressers who used their religion to justify their expulsion of the Palestinians.I think all militant jews like Ariel sharon should burn in hell.He justifies his violence by making unreasonable demands of the Palestinians.Like the PLO and its fellow organisations are so splintered he cannot control them even if he wanted.
The thing that I admire most about National Socialism is its social policies and how they were implemented.A society was brought from chaos to superb order in a matter of a few years.Like we saw the breakup of the USSR and the subsequent upheavels in Russia.After 12 years the country is starting to get back on track,I feel it took so long that it was all down to the governments weak policy,their inability to enforce its laws and its weak leadership.Like Yeltsin was either drunk or in hospital,he was never there to see the day to day running of the government.National Socialism took a strong hand in its citizens welfare.Crime was nonexistent as was unemployment.For example they had large amounts of men working on the Autobahns.They were organised in a military manner.They paraded around through cities bursting with pride with their shovels over their shoulders because they knew their joint small contribution would make their country great.Like my country is the only Nationalist governed republic in Western Europe.We dont carry any of the racism etc. that carries being a Nationalist.They have been mighty slow about the refugee problem though.The usual notion that you take care of your own first and then take care of the outsiders second is gone out the window.My town is increasingly undersiege from the amount of refugees located there.That is the result of weak policy in which they try to sweep the problem under the carpet by relocating them as far from the capital city as practically possible.My county has 8% of the countries population and 25% of the refugees just to show the unbalance.The capital city then has about 10% despite having about 50% of population.If this was a national socialist governed country this problem would not exist or would the ignoring of the plight of the Natives.As I said before politicians are afraid of showing leadership and courage as Bush is doing in case of it reflecting badly at election time.

— Posted by Arquis on 9:35 pm on Feb. 8, 2002

Balor, I’m not sure you’ve said where you are. I assumed the US but it seems to be western Europe. Thanks for calling off the gassing. Alot of the issues you raise here regarding Germany in the thirties are ones of national character, I feel. By nature, Germans are hard-working, disciplined, with an innate respect for authority. A good deal of the blame for WW II lies with England and the terms of the Versailles Treaty after WW I. The terms were outrageously unfair, unjust and aimed at Germanic pride, which was wrong. And by depriving Germany of the right to have an army they gave rise to the formation of a massive police force, out of which most of the Nazi bureaucracy and the SS came. I have great respect for the military mentality but little for the police, which is too concerned with controlling the masses through spurious moral issues. It is almost a secular equivalent of the priesthood. So much of the Church’es power used to lie in the Seven Deadly Sins, which appear nowhere in the Bible, and when you look at them — anger, lust, gluttony, etc — are really not sins at all so much as human foibles. And that was their point — no one is exempt, everyone’s a sinner, and only the Church can intercede with Jesus to forgive the sins. No other religion has such a concept, and Christiainity did not originally have it. Like all the other religions, it originally taught that bad deeds have to be replaced by good ones. The forgiveness of sins idea led to such outrageous things as the sale of indulgences for sins you hadn’t yet committed but intended to. The motive was money and power. National characteristics in Russia are very different from those in Germany. The Russia of Dostoevsky was scarcely different from the Post-Revolutionary period. There’s a writer called Boris Pilynak — executed by Stalin — who portrays the post -rev period really well. They had to arrest peasants for stealing wood from the forests, not because of the wood but because they refused to accept that now they didn’t have to steal the wood because it was theirs. One of the problems with US foreign policy is that it presupposes the whole world should be at the same level of advancement. In actuality, in, say, Papua New Guinea it’s really still the Stone Age. In Afghasnistan it’s around the 12th century. In most of the Arab countries it’s the 15th century. I think it is wrong to impose the values of the developed West on nations that are not ready for them. It wasn’t that long ago that Blacks in the US were segregated and could not vote; and not much earlier than that women couldn’t vote. We may not veil our women today but we still impose dress codes for them…for men too. They still have to cover parts of their body by law — yet we scoff at Islamists who insist on the veil. More tolerance for the historical levels we’ve each arrived at would help a lot. As for Israel-Palestine: You come away from the Middle East thinking “Guys, cut it out!” They’re both as bad as each other. I think the bias toward Israel by the US is causing more problems than it is solving. Most rational Israelis and Palestinians I know say that the answer lies in educating Palestinians to the level of Israelis — because if you’re going to live side by side with someone you need to know the same things as each other. But Jerusalem has to become an international city. No one can have it as their capital. It wouldn’t work. The Israelis conceded alot, though, and Arafat nearly had his state. But he can’t control the various factions, and you’re right in saying Sharon and others are asking the impossible. But they’re sick of him. He lies about everything and has constantly negotiated in bad faith. Israel would honor a cease fire, but when you have suicide bombers added to the mix, you can’t blame them for retaliating. Those who call Israel an artificial creation need to realize that all those countries — the ones with straight lines for borders — are artificial. Even the monarchies were creations of the British. The whole area between the Mediterranean and the Indian Ocean was populated solely by pastoral nomads. But even most Palestinians will privately tell you that they dont dispute the Jews’ claim on religious grounds — and that includes the disputed settlemnts, most of which are on sites sacred to the Torah. The Palestinians get it from both sides though. The Arabs have never really helped them — and in some cases have waged war against them too. Let’s not forget that the Sharif of Mecca was instrumental in aceptong the Zionist idea, because he believed a Euro colony in Palestine would help raise the standard of living across the ME. The only Jew in the British cabinet that launched the creation of Israel was the only person to vote against the idea. Even Chai  Weitzman was dismayed to find how Arab in character Palestine had become when he first went there, and he despaired of being able to change it. Through sheer hard work, though, the Israelis have made a magnificient country out of nothing. Anti-Semites should really make an effort to visit Israel, which is a fairly poor country, if only to see Jews working in every echelon of society. The cab drivers are Jews, the beggars are jews, the pharmacists, street-sweepers, shop-clerks, everyone. It is not a nation of bankers, loan sharks, money-lenders. These stereotypes are the creation of others, who forbad Jews employment in other areas. It is ironic but prejudice creates the things it fears. You see financial power among the Jains and Zoroastrians in India — because they were minorities who stuck together because they had to and as a consequence developed superior business skills than others. In Israel there is no Jewish part of town, no ghetto, and no pressure to pull together out of necessity to protect oneself. If I had the money I would offer any anti-Semite a free trip to Israel, because I know they would come away realizing that Jews are just people too, and only gravitated into certain areas of activity because of our attitudes to them. Where being Jewish isnt an issue, as in Israel, one sees this so clearly. I think it’s true all round. Go anywhere you think you hate the inhabitants and you come away wondering how you could have been so wrong. Most Americans would be shocked by the welcome that awaits any American visiting Iran, or Iraq for that matter. The warmth and hospitality shown by starngers in these places is deeply humbling, especially when we think how they’re treated in the US. Thanks Balor

— Posted by The Great Milenko on 12:17 am on Feb. 9, 2002

Wow my eyes hurt from reading such long ass posts! i think it’s a new record for the least posts but the most words!
pity it’s on such a stupid topic, (what arquis said not what other ppl are saying) when i saw the title i thought hmm this should be interesting and perhaps good, i thought that it was somthing about how we now are going to have alot less freedom and are going to get harsher sentences if we’re caught with such things as explosives, but alas tis not true, ahhwell, it’s nice to see some genuine posts, not just “can i have the plans too, omg!! send the plans to suchandsuch@whatever.com!!!” and topics such as “DeRrR iR eEeZz KeWl AnArChIsT, hOw Do I mAkE a PiPe BoMb?”

— Posted by somefukinsnapov on 4:40 am on Feb. 9, 2002

bah humbug!! assquiz should post at sphincter.com with this whining shite! who cares if iraqi’s are nice??


(Edited by somefukinsnapov at 8:40 pm on Feb. 9, 2002)

— Posted by balor on 2:40 pm on Feb. 9, 2002

Well in fairness I think we have set a record for the posts to words ratio.This is what a forum is about,where people can talk about various topics and agree or agree to disagree.In all fairness Arquis you have a lot of valid points!I suppose I failed to see how we hundreds of years ago were held in the Dark ages by religion etc. and that the same thing is relevent to Islamists today.Their religious believes prevent them socially from moving on into the real and civilised(?) world.As for Iraq I suppose the sanctions were misdirected at the population than at Saddam.The people paid the price for Saddams misadventures in Kuwait.Ordinary Iraqis die of starvation while Saddam lives in luxury.This fact is often missed and Iraqis are cast as the badguys when its only Saddam and the Baath party are to blame.Like Bush called for a general uprising with US backing  against Saddam and then failed to help them as featured in Three Kings. Seems like Bush jr. did to the Taliban what his old man never did to Saddam.

— Posted by jmb1125 on 4:00 pm on Feb. 9, 2002

lol Milenko!!!
Yeah I think the posts should be short enough to read
the whole thing without using the “ARROW-DOWN”
gizmo. Try making short paragraphs by hitting
“ENTER” twice. It’s easier to read…..lol……….

— Posted by Arquis on 8:37 pm on Feb. 10, 2002

Right Balor. Except Saddam was encouraged to go into Kuweit by the US. If you read the transcript of the last meeting he had with Glaspie, the US ambassador, it is clear he is asking how the US would react if he invaded Kuweit. Three times he asks and each time she replies that Secretary of State James Baker has told her to say that the US has “no opinion” when it comes to inter-Arab squabbles. To Saddam that was a green light. In a New York Times interview, Glaspie said that no one thought Saddam would take all of Kuweit, from which you can infer that it would have been okay if he’d just taken part of it.

Either way, he had a legitimate beef with Kuweit. He’d defended them from the Iranians during the Iran-Iraq war, and they’d agreed topay him $4 billion for doing it but they money never came. He thought of himself as an American ally defending another ally. To add to this the Kuweitis were drilling into Iraqi diagonally across the border and he’d asked them to stop several times. He was pissed with them, and at the meetingf  with Glaspie he expects her to understand and she seems to. Remember too, Bush was pisssed with the Kuweitis for playing the international money markets and destabilizing currencies by switching in and out. They had too much cash — a situation he certainly fixed.

The Iraqis were thrilled when the war broke out. They thought they’d finally get rid of Saddam, because no election would do it and no revolution would succeed with a man so well-protected as Saddam.

— Posted by balor on 4:03 pm on Feb. 11, 2002

Well surely that the US would have at least considered what would have happened if Saddam took control of the whole of Kuwait.Like Kuwait is a tiny country and if you are going to take some of it,you might as well take all of it.I never heard about the Kuwaitis drilling into Iraqi oilfields but I presume you dont get to have the worlds wealthiest population through honesty!
As towards the Iran-Iraq war I also never heard of the $4 billion deal.Thinking about it I wonder why the Kuwaitis had to worry about.Iraq started the war after all and were the aggressors and so Iran were entitled to respond against them. Also why did the US and UK respond like they did if it suited their interest to have Kuwait stripped of its wealth and after help so much with the reconstruction of Kuwait and the semi-disarmament of Iraq.

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