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Accurate Rockets???

— Posted by JT666 on 7:23 pm on Mar. 11, 2002

Well ive made a fare few actual rocket launchers … very funn but im shit at making them go where i want
as accurate as i can get is with a bloody stick attatched to the basterds and then they seem to drag a bit or more hover along especially with something attatched to the end like a pipebomb
the best ive ever shot was my nans fucking car but even then i was aiming bout 90degrees to the right at a squirrel
please oooo please the squirrel needs too get it
aid me in quest for the destruction of the fury ones………

— Posted by Darkie on 8:40 pm on Mar. 11, 2002

I heard on here once…take some of those floppy plastic folders and cut out 3 or 4 fins and glue them on. The floppy fins sorta fold down and wrap around the rocket while in the tube and spring out when it comes out of the tube.

Hope this helps.

— Posted by jmb1125 on 9:49 pm on Mar. 11, 2002

Where’s your balance point? Stick rockets require that it be zero to one inch from the nozzle end of the rocket motor. Finned missles should be, well fuck-if-I-know.

— Posted by Hergor on 10:01 am on Mar. 12, 2002

for finned missiles it’s best to weight out their balance point in the middle (where the fins are), maybe a slight ammount nearer to the rear end…

— Posted by JT666 on 2:18 pm on Mar. 12, 2002

Yeah tried fins aswell but not with springs thats a smart idea……hmmmmm cheers ill give it a go.

— Posted by JT666 on 3:08 pm on Mar. 12, 2002

i gave that some thought but how would i make them ?

— Posted by Hergor on 3:54 pm on Mar. 12, 2002

just take some plastic plates (i got mine from an arts store – the ones you can print with) and cut them into fins looking like this:

/ |
/ |
| |
| |
| |
| |
| |
| |
| |
| | / |
/ |
/ |
| | ——-
if you first fold it 90 degrees: _|

and then to 180 degrees: –= (not —-)
it works best for they got more power when folded against the part you glue to the rocket than if you fold them away from it.

sorry, my ascii drawings suck… 🙁
maybe i should send you the plan

— Posted by jmb1125 on 6:27 pm on Mar. 12, 2002

Wow, what a keyboard Picasso. How did you draw the whole thing in that stupid little box? Draw a Porshe 911.

(Edited by jmb1125 at 10:56 pm on Mar. 19, 2002)

— Posted by JT666 on 12:08 am on Mar. 13, 2002

Yeah cheers thats pretty smart not bad for text but were on the rocket would they be? i mean how far behind the engine ? if you have got plans thatd be great if you could send them to my email arsewrench@hotmail.com
i know how to make proper easy fuses if ne 1 wants to know? just say.

— Posted by Justin Clarence on 12:29 am on Mar. 13, 2002

If you lack accuracy, do what the Russkies did in the sixties.  Make up for the lack of accuracy with a bigger boom.

Estes rockets are prepackaged, but can only hold a class-C engine.  Upgrade to a larger class-F engine and adapt it into your rocket/RPG/etc…  I made some mechanical adaptations too, allowing the fins to fold INTO the rocket itself using an erector set.  

Next, make your favorite explosive and insert it into the nose cone that comes with the pacakge.  Some rockets are big enough, like mine, so that you can stick a slow-fuse into the center that gets lit by the engine flame.  For special purposes, I also added a primer to the nose with a thumbtack so that the weapon would detonate on contact.  Kapeesh?

— Posted by JT666 on 1:22 am on Mar. 13, 2002

All very well but wat the hell is the point of a rocket that zooms at the speed of my arse when it cant hit what im aiming at that is my problem bloody accuracy

— Posted by Hergor on 4:21 am on Mar. 13, 2002

at selfmade rockets the fins are NOT behind the engine. try to weight it out that the middle of the rocket is the balance point and then attach the fins about 1cm nearer to the back. the idea is that the rocket, whileflight (imagine the engines do not burn), does not sink to the front and neither to the back. now imagine the situation with started engines. the engine’s power now ‘pushes’ the rocket in one direction. that means that even a slight influence on the rocket might change its course. this happens when because the rocket starts spinning. when using in-barrel guiding rails, the rocket (given that the rails are placed right and the rocket is heavier at the bottom than at the top [while horizontal]) will not experience any influences to the right and left (at least if the engine is strong enough). remember, the fins’ actual task is to keep the rocket from spinning. this can be done best, if the fins are placed at the balance point. due to the engines’ propelling force, the balance point moves (while flight) slightly more to the rear end of the rocket. that’s where the fins are placed.

the fins cannot help much to prevent the rocket from sinking. this is achieved by placing the balance point further away from the engine to make it point more to the ground.

somehow like that but not that steep:

/ front

| back

maybe i’m gonna draw a little schematic of a rocket and send it to you… 🙂

— Posted by hamas on 8:44 am on Mar. 13, 2002

How can I make a missile or a Qassam Rocket? Please e-mail me me back at abul46@hotmail.com

— Posted by JT666 on 6:04 pm on Mar. 13, 2002

ah i think i get the picture will have to try it out at the wkend tanks thats been a good help 😉

— Posted by jmb1125 on 10:10 pm on Mar. 13, 2002

I do much the same thing for my point-detonating rockets. Primers and a firing pin. A solid wood lathe-turned nosecone keeps it all together.

As far as the fins, I think any sort of flexible fin would decrease the accuracy. I have tried wood fins, say about 2mm thick, glued on at a slight angle, to give the rocket a spiral flight. Also, you can try gluing them on straight, with one side of the leading edge ground like a ramp.

— Posted by JT666 on 3:48 pm on Mar. 14, 2002

Yeah didnt think of that Hmmmmmmmmmm………………….
Any ways of making flick out Fins that arn’t likely to flap about ?

— Posted by jmb1125 on 7:02 pm on Mar. 14, 2002

Are you tube-launching? If so, rigid fins will work only if the front of the rocket is supported to keep it on center-line. You could use three (or four) long, small diameter wood screws in a radial pattern layout to act as legs near the front of your rocket.

Another thing you might try is drilling out the core of your rocket motor. This increases the surface area of the propellant allowing more initial thrust on start-up. I would go no larger than the original nozzle inside diameter. Just deeper.

— Posted by johnny 99 on 12:54 am on Mar. 15, 2002

instead of a guide rod cut out some styrofome to fit around your missile, thats a slip fit into the launch tube on the outside. ie. a saboted round. that way you dont need folding fins they fit inside the sabot casing, which is cut into two pieces, so that when the whole package leaves the lauch tube the sabot blows away exsposing your fins!  also hobby lobby carries a toy gyroscope that you spin up by blowing into. It should be fairly easy to gyro stabilize a racket with this, either with a scoop,vented exaust, or a co2 powerlett.

— Posted by JT666 on 8:00 am on Mar. 15, 2002

Arr now theres a pretty smart idea
With the styro foam And would protect during transport
very clever 😉

— Posted by Hergor on 8:34 am on Mar. 15, 2002

jmb, do you know if it’s a good idea to drill nearly all the way up to the end of the engines ‘fuel’, put the dust back in on the other side and close it there with a ‘cent’ or any other coin?

and, does some KMnO4 have any effects on the rocket’s speed (providing more oxygen, thus causing the fuel to burn hotter and building up more pressure)?

— Posted by johnny 99 on 2:34 pm on Mar. 15, 2002

In reference, to flck out fins. You should be able to use the black steel banding found at a construction site to make petty good spring out fins that wrap aroud the rocket body. as I recall these are close to what the LAAW’s uses.

— Posted by JT666 on 5:08 pm on Mar. 15, 2002

yeah that may be a little dangerous with the drilling ?
ive made a small pen type rocket thing before and made it so theres a lot space for air pressure too build up but instead it blew up sending bits of the aluminium rocket ito my hands and they throbbed for hours couse of the shockwave caused
can a normal estes rocket take this ? or will it need extra casing ?

— Posted by Justin Clarence on 6:33 pm on Mar. 15, 2002

I didn’t expect any responses to the missiles I have designed, so I am sorry I did not get back to you guys.  Anyways, the rockets I made were tube launched out of a pvc pipe about 3″ thick.  The rocket, made by Estes, was modified with extending fins on the front.  The tail fins were a b-yotch to make because of the engine placement.

These fins are folded into the fuselage.  The ends of the fins are rounded so they slide through the tube without friction.  I am sorry, but without the actual item in hand, it is very hard to describe how to make them.  I can tell you that the pieces involved were erector set pieces and small springs.  My design was based off the army’s TOW.

I also found it hard to reload (I made lots of these rockets) the tubes once fired, so a serviceable weapon this is not.  I plan on putting multiple tubes together if I ever want to fire multiple rockets.  And yes, Estes rockets maybe rickety, but they hold up long enough to be flown (blown up) once.

— Posted by jmb1125 on 8:05 pm on Mar. 15, 2002

Yeah Johnny you are right about the styrafoam. I’v done it that way too. Of course I have the luxury of machining the foam inside and out on a lathe with a tool post grinder and a diamond wheel. The discarding sabot is a good way to go. Adhesive teflon tape will make it slide along well.

Hergor, I don’t understand why you would want to put the powder on the other side of the bulkhead. The motors I use I make myself. They would be classified as a “G” which is a 3/4 inch ID by 4 inches long.

— Posted by johnny 99 on 11:08 pm on Mar. 15, 2002

yea, but for the less machine shop gifted a hotwire cutter, or even a plumers wire saw and sanding block will work nicelly!  By the way anyone ever built a pulse jet engine? I’m thinking that I could buld a really great surface to air missile with a rocket boosted pulse jet & gyro stabilizers!

— Posted by jmb1125 on 12:39 am on Mar. 16, 2002

I’v heard of ppl making r/c rockets. I have plans for some. But these plans don’t include gyros. Nothing on pulse jet either.

— Posted by Biohazard on 12:44 am on Mar. 16, 2002

Honestly, real accuracy isn’t economically feasible. Instead, get a dozen or so tubes and latch them all together. Put a medium bottle rocket in each one with the fuse and stick poking out the back. Aim it at your target and start lighting them as fast as you can, moving from top to bottom. Viola! Instant MLRS! A few may fly true, and it is SURE to scare the HELL out of anyone on the reciving end.

Also, PVC bazookas can be made to fire small bottle rockets accurately. I’ve found that Air Travellers work best (not moon travellers! They are as reliable as a car without an engine). They lack real bang, but I wouldn’t want to be on the receiving end.

Or, for the lazy, get 15 shot Saturn Missile Batteries. 15 shots should be more than enough to hit someone a few times and/or make them duck for cover.

Clustered roman candles make excellent incendiary machineguns. Accurate, hard-hitting (on people), and may light dry material where they hit, like leaves or car seats. Ouch.

— Posted by johnny 99 on 12:46 am on Mar. 16, 2002

Yes I know, I probably have the same books , this is my own desighn that im cooking up. pulse jets are what they used to power the V-1 buzzbombs in WW-2  now they use them in some rc planes etc. just wondering if anyone had built one.  thanks.

— Posted by jmb1125 on 1:08 am on Mar. 16, 2002

Johnny, yeah I didn’t know that about pulse jet on models. Biohazard, your idea for an MLRS would be hell on police helicopters. LOL.

— Posted by johnny 99 on 1:23 am on Mar. 16, 2002

yea I like the Idea of anMLRS battery, but I’d want something with a helluva lot more punch than a bottle rocket before I started shooting at the cops. By the way have you ever had an MLRS battery start firing overyour heaad at at 3 in the morning when your asleep in your fartsack? it’ll scare the living shit out of you and make you see god!!!!

— Posted by johnny 99 on 1:45 am on Mar. 16, 2002

Hey JMB I saw in one of the back posts that your from the western slope. Do you work for GPD  in Junction? I worked there a few years ago, pretty fun job for awhile.

— Posted by JT666 on 6:22 am on Mar. 16, 2002

Hmmm theres an idea Police funn He he there allways doin drug raids and following up stolen cars in my shit hole of a town and it pisses me off that sounds like a good way too piss them off Have you got any plans Made allready for that ? surface to air fun sounds good
anyway thanks for the response people some of this seems pretty good im currently makin a 66er with stereo jacks for atatchin the rockets to make it easier when finished i will have to say how well that idea with screws and with foam goes speak later cheers.

— Posted by jmb1125 on 2:36 pm on Mar. 16, 2002

ha. small world. no, i don’t work there. gpd and sunstrand are both slippin.

— Posted by johnny 99 on 5:22 pm on Mar. 16, 2002

Yea, JMB i’m on the other side of the mountain  these days . same neck of the woods though. Anyway, have fun!!!

— Posted by jmb1125 on 2:43 am on Mar. 17, 2002

lol I know where you are. GPD we call “Get Poked Daily”, Sunstrand is “Suckstrand” and Jobsite is “Knobsite.” LOL.

— Posted by JT666 on 5:41 am on Mar. 18, 2002

Hey just finished my 66er type thing that uses theese rockets with the idea of the foamthing in mind if any one wants to know how just message me ill send the plans as its easy and uses easily atainable parts eg.
plastc cup.matches.head phones.headphone female plug.two peices of interlockable pipe.4aas.and an L.E.D o and a couple of estes rockets or two wouldnt go a miss if anyone cant get hold of rockets ill tell ya how to make your own but they have a tendancy too explode which is annoying but the offers there

O and cheers for that styro-foam idea it works brilliantly and cheers hergor for tellin me were to put the center of balance couse they work great now

— Posted by jmb1125 on 1:30 am on Mar. 25, 2002

oh yeah, back to the subject of drilling out rocket motors….. clamp the shank of the drill bit in a vise…..rotate the motor by hand slowly onto the drill bit….and clear it often..no big deal if you are careful.

— Posted by Zero the Inestimable on 10:37 am on Mar. 25, 2002

Well, there are three things that I’ve gotten to work. In order of least to most complex:

Slotted launchers. If your rockets have three fins on them, cut three straight (it is important that you get them very straight, otherwise your rocket may jam) slots down your launch tube. It certainly helps to make your launcher out of something very sturdy, like metal pipe, so the thing won’t bend. You can use stabilizing pieces that won’t interfere with the fins, if you want.

Tube fins. Estes makes a model rocket that uses a similar design. Your rocket has traditional fins, but narrow ones that cover most of the length of the thing. The whole assembly, rocket and fins, is permanently affixed to a light tube that slides easily down the launch tube. This should keep the rocket stable while it ramps up and the tube alone would be enough to keep the rocket flying straight while it’s airborne.

Stinger rockets. Daniel Williams had a description of this on his site, but his entire site seems to have vanished. Regardless, a “stinger” missile is just a spin stabilized rocket, with two equidistant angled nozzles on its side rather than the traditional single nozzle on the back. Provided you have everything even, a missile of this design should stabilize itself by spinning, just like a bullet.

~Zero the Inestimable

— Posted by johnny 99 on 12:14 pm on Mar. 25, 2002

Here is another way, that I’ve been thinking about. You should be able to trail a thin metal cable behind the rocket to stabilize it, as long as the engine has thrust. no fins at all, and the cable could be coiled up inthe launch tube. I have’nt tried this yet but I will.

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